79 replies to this topic

[Kalar Freno]

As I said in the thread for the 8th, I will be bringing along my Griffin or Kitsune to try out a dedicated ECM "skirmisher squad" (by that I mean independently moving and operating, not necessarily that we will be engaging/baiting targets) that follows in the wake of the main fleet.

I'd like to see a greater ECM turnout on this roam than the last few (where we've only had 1 or 2 ships bringing along jammers); so if anyone is planning on bringing one of these ships please speak up so we can start thinking ECM composition and numbers.

Thanks,

I'm planning to come in a Griffin, and would be interested to see how an independent ECM squad works. This is my first time flying with Agony and I don't have a huge amount of experience with ECM bonused ships (I'm hoping to pick some up on the basics course!), but I'd love to be included.

[Othran]

I agree with Sarek that for the bait squad role (in which this ship can shine) his fit (or something close to it) is best. But the OP emphasized survivability and lack of complexity, so I didn't see him in that role, I saw him in the main fleet.

I also agree with Vissuddha that "If your intentions are to be secondary tackle then I applaud you & recommend my dual rep fit. If however you are wanting to do anything but that in a fleet I would be looking for a different ship to fly." but I felt I'd already shat on the ship enough. If you're in the main fleet and not bringing ewar or deeps, and you're not the FC (I can definitely see the FC flying this) then what exactly is your role? ("I'm the guy who survives" is not a role.)

My "role" on the first roam is to get back up to speed really. I'm happy to wander around doing whatever is useful - got ranis up there so could do the on-grid tams etc. Not bothered about killmails. Vengeance seems sensible given the initial engagements on a basic class, I got stuff arund area.

I've done bait and drag squads for Caldak, right now I'm not sure I'd want either if I was offered but we'll see what we see. Solo is easy, don't have to worry about others.

Hopefully I can get to the stage where I'm happy to put my hand up and take a squad on 8 October and we all have a bit of fun. Been a fair old time for sure....

To the man who is thinking about a Hyena - fit a mwd or don't bother bringing it. The only thing I managed last roam was to web a Sabre who was trying to burn and pop bubble on gate - that didn't end well although I did get away. It needs a mwd and it looks horribly vulnerable with one fitted. Maybe you can make it work but I dunno, for now I think Sentinel and Kitsune are the only really useful EAS ships, but drones on a basic roam = bye bye drones, so maybe only Kitsune is useful?

Damn. Another WoT.

[John McGuirk]

for now I think Sentinel and Kitsune are the only really useful EAS ships, but drones on a basic roam = bye bye drones, so maybe only Kitsune is useful?

Damn. Another WoT.

I fly the Kitsune, and have no experience with any of the other EASes, but my observation may still be valid.

With the EASes, everything but Caldari splits bonuses on the T2 ships between the racial primary and secondary EWAR.
For instance:
Sentinel doesn't improve tracking disruptor effectiveness over Crucifier, but adds a neut strength and range bonus.
Keres doesn't improve dampening effectiveness over the Maulus, but adds a point range and efficiency bonus.
Hyena marginally improves painting effectiveness over the Vigil, and adds a web range bonus.


I'm sure there are experienced people that can argue that these are good things (I'm sure there are people that love the Sentinel, Keres, or Hyena as much as I love my Kitsune), but I kind of see it as adding breadth rather than depth by going to an EAS from a T1 EWAR frigate.

The Kitsune is improved over the Griffin in both ECM strength and range. However, the targeting range must be overcome to make the EAS skill bonus really shine and make a difference (I think all EASes have crap for targeting range, but I'm not sure how it impacts anything but the Kitsune). I guess I'm weakly agreeing with your determination of the Kitsune being the only useful EAS. But again, I think it depends on if you think it's more valuable to have extra functionality like neuts, points, or webs.

As an aside, if we get enough EASes, all we need to implement standoff EWAR is a Remote Sensor Booster platform, like one for every four EAS Though I don't know if we can convince anyone to fly support for the support...

[Othran]

for now I think Sentinel and Kitsune are the only really useful EAS ships, but drones on a basic roam = bye bye drones, so maybe only Kitsune is useful?

Damn. Another WoT.

I fly the Kitsune, and have no experience with any of the other EASes, but my observation may still be valid.

With the EASes, everything but Caldari splits bonuses on the T2 ships between the racial primary and secondary EWAR.
For instance:
Sentinel doesn't improve tracking disruptor effectiveness over Crucifier, but adds a neut strength and range bonus.
Keres doesn't improve dampening effectiveness over the Maulus, but adds a point range and efficiency bonus.
Hyena marginally improves painting effectiveness over the Vigil, and adds a web range bonus.


I'm sure there are experienced people that can argue that these are good things (I'm sure there are people that love the Sentinel, Keres, or Hyena as much as I love my Kitsune), but I kind of see it as adding breadth rather than depth by going to an EAS from a T1 EWAR frigate.

The Kitsune is improved over the Griffin in both ECM strength and range. However, the targeting range must be overcome to make the EAS skill bonus really shine and make a difference (I think all EASes have crap for targeting range, but I'm not sure how it impacts anything but the Kitsune). I guess I'm weakly agreeing with your determination of the Kitsune being the only useful EAS. But again, I think it depends on if you think it's more valuable to have extra functionality like neuts, points, or webs.

As an aside, if we get enough EASes, all we need to implement standoff EWAR is a Remote Sensor Booster platform, like one for every four EAS Though I don't know if we can convince anyone to fly support for the support...

Good stuff John, especially about Sentinel - I hadn't really thought about it that way. TBH I just view it as a mini-Curse. A Curse is just about the best fun ever for solo PvP IMHO.

Maybe you guys flying ECM boats on 8 Oct need to make Caldak aware of your intent, so he can do some forward planning - or come try it out the night before with Agony "shepherds" in case it all goes tits-up

Looks like fun so far.....

[John McGuirk]

Again, disclaiming that I have never flown anything I'm talking about except the Kitsune: Yes, just looking at bonuses, the EASes are just mini-Recons. The same racial trends exist, where Force Recons generally get a range bonus to secondary EWAR per Recon skill, and the Cruiser skill gets you no more than the T1 EWAR cruiser would get you as far as effectiveness. They get the bonus of being able to fit the CovOps cloak, and the Combat Recons trade that for another weapon-related bonus. Again, Caldari is "special," in that Falcon and Rook get doubly-bonused for ECM strength (except it's just a single LARGE bonus for the Recon skill in contrast to the strength/range bonuses from Caldari Frigate and EAS in the case of the Kitsune). Again, making the Caldari Recons markedly better than the Blackbird for EWAR, while the other races' Recons get a secondary EWAR, and only track/damp/paint as good as their T1 cruiser hulls. I'll give you three guesses as to what I'm dying to fly (and the first two don't count). Caldak is aware of our intent. I don't think either O'Kais or myself can make the Friday roam, so we're just going in cold on Saturday (with whatever precoordination we can accomplish with Caldak).

[Sadamu]

Hmmm this appears to have turned into a "which vengeance to fly" thread which wasn't my intent - sorry peeps.

I will not be flying any of these Vengeances. Most likely an Ares or Jaguar. Possibly a Blastaranis, if I'm feeling extra up-close-and-personal on the day.

An Ishkur could be fun, too, but drones seem like they'd impede the high-speed-low-drag roam style.

[Othran]

Hmmm this appears to have turned into a "which vengeance to fly" thread which wasn't my intent - sorry peeps.

I will not be flying any of these Vengeances. Most likely an Ares or Jaguar. Possibly a Blastaranis, if I'm feeling extra up-close-and-personal on the day.

An Ishkur could be fun, too, but drones seem like they'd impede the high-speed-low-drag roam style.

Mmmm Ishkur, Enyo, Sentinel are all fun but you do tend to get cold warped which leaves the drones behind unless you're fast recalling them - I'm dreadful for that.

[Kaeda Maxwell]

Ah discussions on my favorite assault ship. I fit mine differently yet! (In lowsec where I live I fit a gisti-b ab however) c-type nos makes that you can actually stay away from the edge of smartbombs (if just barely). [Vengeance, Terrier Vengeance (null)] Corpii C-Type Small Armor Repairer 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Scrambler II 150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S Corpii C-Type Small Nosferatu Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I For the roam however I'm brawler fitting a malediction (with a plate, yes really) because that is my newest fitting hobby.

[Sarek Minyatar]

nice fit, not too expensive either. scram-web is always nice to have. It's all trade-offs of course, this one might run into cap issues when facing a dual-nuet Cane that knows what he is doing (very common these days). How much is that Nos?

[Othran]

For the roam however I'm brawler fitting a malediction (with a plate, yes really) because that is my newest fitting hobby.

Well how about before the roam - yes yes I know I've said it before

I appear to have annoyed "Drifting With Jesus" (Mara Abraham) by pointing out the Stabber is crap and his fit is an accident waiting to happen - Vaga "trainer" which lands you in scram range to do more than 150dps. Quelle surprise mmm? I really shouldn't do it but I was at an airport and very bored.

So its all tuskers again - probably, with stabbers'n'daggers on me no doubt (I jest). I suggest cheap and cheerful if we do it (shield ruppies maybe?), just have a warm-up etc.

[Othran]

Heh I finally have it - been driving me crazy trying to remember. I have been trying to work out why your name is familiar Sarek and I think I have it - you were in Great Wildlands last January yes? If its not that then I dunno but I've seen you somewhere before you joined Agony. Was driving me nuts last roam too - kept thinking "where have I seen this guy before?" Edit - I remember faces and names more than context these days. Getting older or too many contacts? Dunno on that either.

[Sarek Minyatar]

Heh I finally have it - been driving me crazy trying to remember.

I have been trying to work out why your name is familiar Sarek and I think I have it - you were in Great Wildlands last January yes?

Yes I was indeed, flying with Republic Alliance & friends

[Manic M1ner]

I had tons of fun in my last Agony roam in Caldak’s bait squad. The ship didn’t pop so I’ll role her out for this roam [Malediction, X-Type ] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Warp Scrambler II Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile [empty high slot] Small Ionic Field Projector I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

[Sarek Minyatar]

Crowd tanking ftw, otherwise this would die if you look at it maliciously (the nano-age is over) Here's how you fit it properly, Agony-skirmishing style: [Malediction, Skirmishing Malediction] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Overdrive Injector System II Medium Shield Extender II Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Warp Disruptor II 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S OE-5200 Rocket Launcher,Defender I Small Ionic Field Projector I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I This is obviously for fleet tackle - Kohana is talking about a close range scram-brawling Malediction, an entirely different beast that I want to try one day. But seriously, fit some tank, those speed mods are totally unnecessary, it's fast enough as it is.

[Othran]

Heh I finally have it - been driving me crazy trying to remember.

I have been trying to work out why your name is familiar Sarek and I think I have it - you were in Great Wildlands last January yes?

Yes I was indeed, flying with Republic Alliance & friends

Ahhhh that's it. You and one other pilot (Czech/Polish maybe, different corp, didn't fly with you) were the only people I saw from RE-AL who were happy to solo/hunt. Probably my gameplay time but that was it - always you guys around gate late west-coast US time or thereabouts.

Its mainly the same lot down there now - except they dropped the standings list (anyone casually reading, RE-ALs standing list was MASSIVE - think 100k pilots on it, no joke) and now apparently operate NBSI. I think the Initiative have moved in and blobbed them for now, there's been some serious supercap fights anyway - I honestly cba looking, dreadfully depressing place even when its not being used as a staging post. I went there to try to get a friends corp into null - sadly it coincided with a WoW expansion and some went AFG. Some people like their low-sec camps and reliable bonuses/scouts. Some don't. Immovable object meet irresistable force. Life's too short really.

[Kaeda Maxwell]

How much is that Nos?

10 mil if you're willing to shop around a bit, 12,5 to 15 depending on the market on contract sales.

Well how about before the roam - yes yes I know I've said it before

I appear to have annoyed "Drifting With Jesus" (Mara Abraham) by pointing out the Stabber is crap and his fit is an accident waiting to happen - Vaga "trainer" which lands you in scram range to do more than 150dps. Quelle surprise mmm? I really shouldn't do it but I was at an airport and very bored.

So its all tuskers again - probably, with stabbers'n'daggers on me no doubt (I jest). I suggest cheap and cheerful if we do it (shield ruppies maybe?), just have a warm-up etc.

Tusker land is annoyingly far from Heimater, I should setup a ship stash or 2 in Caldari/Gallente land sometime really. If I can be arsed to move some extra ships beyond the maledictions out before that weekend I have some shield Omens I desperately need to get exploded ;-)

My super sekrit RvB alt informed me we'll be shooting at RvB too so I'll prolly need to bring more then one ship anyway, I'll see.

[Othran]

Tusker land is annoyingly far from Heimater, I should setup a ship stash or 2 in Caldari/Gallente land sometime really. If I can be arsed to move some extra ships beyond the maledictions out before that weekend I have some shield Omens I desperately need to get exploded ;-)

My super sekrit RvB alt informed me we'll be shooting at RvB too so I'll prolly need to bring more then one ship anyway, I'll see.

I figured it'd be something like that.

Its not that much of a trek up to Stacmon if you go Egghelende way. Amamake is still full of Pandemic Legion campers BTW - smartbombing T3s last night which was at least mildly surprising. Dunno how anyone can camp the same gate day after day - would bore the arse off me.

Oh and I can well imagine you want rid of the shield Omens

Edit - you should definitely put some ships in Placid, Nursultan spent the best part of a year up there and said it was a decent place for low-sec fun - better than Heim/Devoid/Bleak Lands/Met at the time. Having said that last time I saw him (August?) he was down Kurniainen way so maybe its garbage now.

[industrial oblitorator]

gday guys, well i have just joined my corp into the clusterfuck coalition, so i will come on the roam if we head south or east of the map.. as i cant go north whatsever..and if we go north i am obligated as a leader to not fuck up and fight along side my blues... so in that...if the lads can tell me we are not coming north i am in... what will i fly .. no farkin idea... i have just trained the mini and caldari bubble ships..and the mini t2 frigs...and can already fly the caldari ones...as to what to drive on the roam .. i have no idea.. maybe a dram ...or a wolf.. or a harpy(BLARPY) no good for whoring mails but it will tear shit up.. and insta drones...so in that as a falcon pilot i may fly that IF POSSIBLE as i LOVE the falcon yes i know its not a frig but hells bells it does a good job..

[Othran]

Bloody hell fred that's a big piccy Kaeda - can you fly this : [Rupture, Shield Ruppie] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Energy Neutralizer II 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Small Energy Neutralizer II 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x5

[Othran]

Caldak has a little competition going at the top of the forum, I suspect some of you have missed it.

Linky

Go see if you can win a Firetail or a guaranteed place on Wolfpacks/Advanced.

I'm not entering as I've been on Advanced and I flew the Firetail before Dominion changed the bonuses.

Its a nice enough ship now but it used to get speed bonuses which made it a very nice tackler (pretty much on a par with Dramiel speed now). DPS was garbage but it was a load of fun for gangs - if you didn't fly it back then you'll enjoy it fine now.

[Kaeda Maxwell]

Bloody hell fred that's a big piccy

Kaeda - can you fly this :

[Rupture, Shield Ruppie]
FIT

Yes, except for the drones because I have ass drone skills, I actually don't like ruppies much for a little more you can fit a Cane SO much more ship for the ISK.
On Caldaks fitting thing I don't like firetails either if I can't kill it in a Rifter I probably can't kill it in a Firetail and again both the Jag & Wolf are better imho for only a little more isk.

[Othran]

Yes, except for the drones because I have ass drone skills, I actually don't like ruppies much for a little more you can fit a Cane SO much more ship for the ISK.
On Caldaks fitting thing I don't like firetails either if I can't kill it in a Rifter I probably can't kill it in a Firetail and again both the Jag & Wolf are better imho for only a little more isk.

On Caldak's compo - you can opt for a guaranteed free place on an Advanced course rather than the ship ISTR you have been asking for an Advanced course for a while?

Re ruppies - yeah I know but these are under 20mill fitted and do near enough 500DPS with 30km or so range. Canes are lovely but so are ruppies - admittedly not on-gate in low-sec but you can't have everything.

Edit - if we are both around prior to roams (its pretty unlikely for Friday) then you can just grab one of these if you haven't moved stuff.

Edit 2 - the competition is now potentially worth 100mill, I just put 50mill more in the pot (for ships/fittings, not isk). Hopefully it encourages a few more signups - there's a lot of familiar alumni faces "missing" but the last year has been like that

[Odontempme]

idk wat im bringing as of yet, i could bring one of 3 ships depending on wat we need/want i could bring my griffon for ECM, or i could bring my interceptor for tackle or i could bring my normal pvp kestrel any1 have any ideas if were short on something?

[Othran]

idk wat im bringing as of yet, i could bring one of 3 ships depending on wat we need/want

i could bring my griffon for ECM, or i could bring my interceptor for tackle or i could bring my normal pvp kestrel

any1 have any ideas if were short on something?

Short on people at the moment I think. Still a week to go.

I suspect part of this roam will involve a massive pre-arranged frigate brawl somewhere but I've been known to be wrong (repeatedly according to the wife).

I'm going for a blend of tank and not quite so much gank. Probably still Vengeance for this roam, ranis maybe for the 7 Oct roam.

If there is a frigate fight occurring then dedicated ECM boats probably won't be that great. Might want a shedload of webs/scrams for that.

All speculation of course - I genuinely have no idea what's planned other than what's been said in this thread.

[John McGuirk]

EWAR Precoordination
Obviously nothing set in stone here, you're free to do whatever you want and ESPECIALLY free to do whatever Caldak wants once we get ready to head out. I'll update if more people roll in or update their preferences.

I've bolded those pilots who WILL bring dedicated EWAR and left unbolded those who say that CAN bring dedicated EWAR if needed. I've crossed off ships to narrow things down, and Garulf in particular is double-counted based on his ship offerings. I stuck Indy in the ECM camp because if he'd fly a Falcon, maybe he'd fly a mini-Falcon?

>=23 +Strength/Range ECM Module Slots
O'Kais: Griffin | Kitsune
John McGuirk: Griffin | Kitsune
Angelio: Griffin | Kitsune
Tsuiban: Griffin | Kitsune
Garulf: Griffin | Kitsune
Kalar: Griffin | Kitsune
Indy: Falcon Griffin | Kitsune

0-0 +Strength Track / +Range Neut Module Slots
Nobody 1: Crucifier | Sentinel

0-0 +Strength Damp / +Range Point Module Slots
Nobody 2: Maulus | Keres

0-0 +Strength Paint / +Range Web Module Slots
Garulf: Vigil | Hyena

0 Support-Support
Othran: Taranis (possible TAM artist)
Volunteer 1: 4-RSeBo Kitsune

47 Vengeances (based on post volume)

Initial thoughts on rough ECM distribution is
35% C
35% M
20% A
10% G


edited for:
20111005 1230 Adding Tsuiban, racial distribution