48 replies to this topic

[Avraham Avinu]

Insight and Recommendations
*too much disparity between classes and documentation. You'll need to make sure the wiki is updated with the proper links and info if you're going to be merging WOLFPACKS with the ADVANCED
*explanations of warp bubble mechanics were awesome and worth the money for the class
*the first day of class, the Advanced class, didn't require us to be in system really since we didn't do anything hands on. I could of been doing something else while listening to class, like bringing my roam ships into system. Maybe tell the fleet to "be at ease" and just be back at a certain time if needed
**Good class all around. Caldak does an excellent job of corralling us all

[Bylator]

Enjoyed the roam immensly, even if my time in the main fight was short lived as was one amongst a few being the first in, guess you've got a chance of being first out haha.
I would recommend a slight break from pure class in the first advanced part with a roam for the scanning re-iteration, the HSSR class was very informative. Roam-wise I did enjoy the autonomy of it, ie thinking for self which was demonstrated once in the fight. I would also suggest students to have been given access to wolfpack reading as well. But since it was a 'one-off' kinda deal I greatly appreciate being given the opportunity to join an advanced session and my appetite for more pvp classes of more diversity is stronger than ever. Many thanks Caldak and Agony Unleashed. Byl..


BASIC-20100417

ALUMNI-BASIC-20100702


ADVANCED HSSR -1807102100

[Alias Forgotten]

Had a blast on the Roam. The Co2 Tears from Gigx was priceless. Class material was good. I previously did not fully understand the mechanics of bubbles, especially drag bubbles. Thanks for the great class.

[Carenthor Loon]

The Co2 Tears from Gigx was priceless.

For anyone that missed them:
[blockquote][ 2010.07.18 01:17:01 ] gigX > tomorrow we come and took all your stations
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:10 ] gigX > and remove you from region
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:15 ] gigX > think about that
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:20 ] gigX > because I thinking already
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:23 ] Altaieere > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:30 ] gigX > it will be tap tap to empire
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:37 ] Altaieere > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:38 ] Vora Dumem > tap tap 'n' stuff
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:38 ] Caldak > Willing to Dance?
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:40 ] Alias Forgotten > TAP
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:41 ] gigX > and you will realy be agony empire
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:42 ] Rakasha Mara > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:43 ] A PECK > tapadee tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:45 ] keacte > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:52 ] Sebastien Saintfrusquin > shut up, people are trying to sleep here !
[ 2010.07.18 01:17:59 ] Alias Forgotten > tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:18:22 ] Stein Voorhees > I can't tap on stumps
[ 2010.07.18 01:18:39 ] Gingger > clump clump?
[ 2010.07.18 01:18:46 ] Stein Voorhees > Something like that
[ 2010.07.18 01:19:06 ] keacte > stomp tap stomp tap << man with limp
[ 2010.07.18 01:19:21 ] Gingger > pirate ctn maybe?
[ 2010.07.18 01:19:59 ] gigX > Caldak
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:06 ] gigX > no need to convo me
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:06 ] Caldak > yes?
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:11 ] gigX > you will see
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:20 ] gigX > your stations burning
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:26 ] Altaieere > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:38 ] Andalion Fey > Tap tap indeed.
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:38 ] Caldak > Was going to ask if you lot are up for another fight, but I think we spanked you too hard and you won't come fight
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:54 ] Lorn Raffa > oh, tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:54 ] gigX > its 3:20 am here
[ 2010.07.18 01:20:58 ] Gingger > givf us freki's pls
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:02 ] Gingger > and we will go
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:02 ] gigX > come tomorrow early
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:09 ] Rakasha Mara > tap spank tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:12 ] Kazuma Matsuki > things don't burn in space...
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:15 ] gigX > freki lol
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:16 ] Caldak > see even I can think of a good excuse to stay up another 5 min .. lol
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:20 ] gigX > even with freki
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:28 ] gigX > you will buy match on at
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:36 ] gigX > shame alliance
[ 2010.07.18 01:21:41 ] gigX > thats the name for you
[ 2010.07.18 01:22:17 ] Altaieere > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:22:45 ] Andalion Fey > Tap tap indeed.
[ 2010.07.18 01:23:07 ] Gizznitt Malikite > tap tap, 3b machariel, tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:23:55 ] gigX > wrong
[ 2010.07.18 01:23:58 ] gigX > it was 4+
[ 2010.07.18 01:24:00 ] Leucippus > tap tap
[ 2010.07.18 01:24:15 ] Caldak > Knoock Knock
[ 2010.07.18 01:25:05 ] MoHawk Nephilium > ding dong...
[ 2010.07.18 01:25:27 ] Vora Dumem > who is there?
[ 2010.07.18 01:25:38 ] Alexsr > aj kuci razlaz
[ 2010.07.18 01:25:49 ] Caldak > So just a quick yes or no, is it worth while staying for a fight, or do you wait for stragglers to come back before you undock ?
[ 2010.07.18 01:26:42 ] Fedijken > C02 IS lighter than hot air
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:14 ] gigX > come to our prime time
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:25 ] gigX > 19 eve
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:37 ] Gizznitt Malikite > good to know... we will try
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:41 ] gigX > no need
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:41 ] Gingger > tap tap?
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:42 ] P8REIT > Fedijken > C02 IS lighter than hot air - Comes from a noob - You have more to learn about everyting in eve there kid before you should talk smack
[ 2010.07.18 01:27:45 ] gigX > I will come to you
[ 2010.07.18 01:28:02 ] gigX > no need to come I will come
[ 2010.07.18 01:28:15 ] ROXGenghis > fap fap
[ 2010.07.18 01:28:17 ] Caldak > K we at the LF gate
[ 2010.07.18 01:29:04 ] Alexsr > we at 8p9
[ 2010.07.18 01:29:41 ] Rehtom Lamina > btw pro scouted guardian earlier
[ 2010.07.18 01:31:26 ] Gingger > o/ gf earlier hf sleep well
[ 2010.07.18 01:31:35 ] EVE System > Channel changed to LF-2KP Local Channel[/blockquote]

[Othran]

Awesome logistics, absolutely awesome. Well done to all the Guardian guys and really top-notch control over them JPD. I was 110% sure I was dead when CO2 primaried me and so was overheating everything yet you dragged me back from structure - thanks lads

[Urd]

First off Logi pilots TY, primaried 3 times lived through 2 and the 3rd was after they had massive reinforcements. You guys rocked!!! second ty caldak that was truly an epic battle. and last but certainly not the least ty to the agony members and class that was truly truly an epic roam. for as the class i thought i was great materials were presented well the manner with how it was conducted was good and the practicals hit home the needed points. see first hand how to avoid the drag bubble ad such was well worth it. they only thing i can ask to impove on the class is more id like to see more

[Melissa Blick]

Since I can't find a separate AAR thread, I'll post here. I was one of the blackbird pilots in the fight, with a char is just under 5 months old. I fitted a 1600mm plate+dcu2. I normally fly caldari, so my armor tanking skills suck.

Logistics: As everyone said, the guardians did a fantastic job. I learnt the beautiful synergy guardians repping blackbirds can achieve. As a blackbird, I got aggro from 3 ships early in the battle, and had two flights of combat drones on me. Now the bubblers popped 3-4 bubbles around the fight, so staying aligned to a celestial for a quick warp out was not an immediate option. I had to depend on the guardians to keep me alive and jamming. Simon (guardian) did an awesome job by keeping me target locked even before the fight started. After a while, they realised there was no point attacking me, and switched targets. Things went a bit haywire after Caldak got primaried and they brought in more ships. Logistics could not keep up, and none of the guardians had my blackbird locked. For a while that was quite justified since no one was attacking me while I was merrily jamming ships. Meanwhile, I turned on my ab and tried to find my way out of the bubbles, so I could warp out if needed. However, i soon got a flight of combat drones on me. Think the 4bil machariel started shooting at me as well. I missed two jam cycles on him, and he had locked me now. I'd gotten quite a few jams on him since the start of the fight, and no doubt he was pissed. I broadcast for armor, but I went down in 10 secs. I think another blackbird went down at roughly the same time.

I really appreciate Simon taking the initiative to keep me alive initially. Next time can we pair up bb's with guardians? Yes I know to broadcast for reps, but bb's always get primaried and can't tank at all. By the time the blackbird gets locked and a rep cycle completes, it will likely be dead. Perhaps each guardian could be paired up with a blackbird, and it's the bb pilot's responsibility to stay in range to get repped. Or should blackbirds just focus on getting the hell out of bubbles, everything else becoming secondary? x) This is less about saving my ship, and more about keeping the ecm alive on field and reducing the incoming dps. Case in point, a few minutes later when my pod was warping to a safespot, I heard someone shouting, 'we can't tank this!' etc.

tl;dr Each blackbird should have a guardian as a buddy, making each other's jobs much easier.

[Barret]

yeah i saw you die melissa. i had just pulled lock on you as you popped. it sucked. hate seeing jammers die. but you did great! lots of jams...and thats what matters. though surviving would have been better. still a great fight

[Vahz]

Agony & Caldak are the reason I've convinced my Corp to now cover all costs for our Corp members to talk Agony classes. Expect to see more from Legio Prima Victrix in future classes. Hopefully a basic class will be coming up soon. Excellent class. Hated that my town's power went out due to storms during the 2nd night of class, so plan to come back as alumni. Caldak, I didn't get to fly with you in my first two basics, but glad I did this time as well as the other members of Agony. You're an outstanding FC, and I was impressed how you organized sometimes chaotic intel coming in. You manged to keep everyone focused on the task at hand and think ahead several steps. I would like to see more random picking of people to put on the spot for each role. Trial by fire is an excellent way to learn, and the roam refreshed my experience with 0.0 roams. I like the use of the squads and the rear guard and would be interested in being in those groups next time. Thank you Agony very much, it was a fun roam as always and look forward to it again! o/

[Urd]

We have internally been considering removing the wolfpacks class and just having Basic, Advanced and then specialized advanced classes. But I think that we leave too many things out when we do that.

Thus wolfpacks will return with some changes. We'll still have the focus on bookmarking and scanning/recon but will add in a new section specifically on bubbles. Anyone that has come to this Advanced class is welcome to come to that next wolfpacks for free (just reference that you will be coming as alumni and this class in your enrollment).

wow thank you SkrewedUp totally intend to take you up on that offer next wolfpacks i see up. and far as i can see whatever classes agony offers are well worth the time and isk spent on them. the information learned has made me alot better of a player and added alot of confidence to my piloting

[Alistone Malikite]

I was one of the blackbird pilots in the fight, with a char is just under 5 months old. I fitted a 1600mm plate+dcu2. I normally fly caldari, so my armor tanking skills suck.

Because you weren't using any EANM and because the armor increase by using an armor plate is a fixed number that is not affected by skills, being a low skilled player has very little affect on your armor tank in a blackbird that is being remotely repped.

Logistics: As everyone said, the guardians did a fantastic job. I learnt the beautiful synergy guardians repping blackbirds can achieve. As a blackbird, I got aggro from 3 ships early in the battle, and had two flights of combat drones on me. Now the bubblers popped 3-4 bubbles around the fight, so staying aligned to a celestial for a quick warp out was not an immediate option.

... the machariel started shooting at me ... I missed two jam cycles ... I broadcast for armor, but I went down in 10 secs. I think another blackbird went down at roughly the same time.

Flying a blackbird with a fleet is often a suicide mission. Your blackbird cannot tank an enemy fleet. Two low slots just isn't enough. Your buffer tank is there to buy time for you to get away or simply last a little longer before you pop.

Things to do:
1) Get out of bubbles (if you have engineering V you have just enough PG to fit a 1600mm plate & a MWD+jammers => but no weapons. This shouldn't bother you. Weapons are the last thing you worry about fitting on a support ship.) A MWD helps you get out of bubbles much much faster than an AB.
2) Keep range on the fight
3) Stay aligned & warp out when you start taking damage
4) Return to the fight (at range whenever possible)

I really appreciate Simon taking the initiative to keep me alive initially. Next time can we pair up bb's with guardians? Yes I know to broadcast for reps, but bb's always get primaried and can't tank at all. ...

tl;dr Each blackbird should have a guardian as a buddy, making each other's jobs much easier.

Having the situational awareness to know who will be primary and preparing to rep them ahead of time is indicative of a good logistics pilot.

But; logistic pilots are flying 100m+ ships and their pre-locks & watch list are usually prioritized with the other logistics pilots. Also, logistics are primaried just as (if not more often) than ECM ships.

It would be nice to "pair up", but adding extra stuff like this can be difficult for an inexperienced logistics pilot. There are so many things that they already have to manage; checking broadcasts; watching other logistics on their watch list. turning on & off reps on multiple targets. transferring cap with their cap buddy. switching cap buddies if theirs is killed/bugs out. Staying in range of the fleet so they can continue to give reps. Staying out of range of the enemy fleet. Sometimes injecting cap. Etc.

And at the end of the day, a 5-10m T1 blackbird just doesn't get the same priority as a 100-150m T2 logistics ship.

[Othran]

The only feedback i can squeeze out of myself is, with "themed" ship names, it can be a bit hard to tell whether a ship name is "themed" or not. I was a bit puzzled whether, say, a ship named "Stiletto" (an actual BC) is shoe-related.

Yeah that would have been me, cane was called "Not Stilettos". I didn't consider people who have English as a second language - your English is better than most UK people however - so its actually a good thing to bring up.

Stiletto Heel in case you're still at a loss - women generally just call the whole shoe stiletto. Not something you'd necessarily understand now I come to think of it.

[Melissa Blick]

Because you weren't using any EANM and because the armor increase by using an armor plate is a fixed number that is not affected by skills, being a low skilled player has very little affect on your armor tank in a blackbird that is being remotely repped.

I was using a best named 1600mm+dcu2, which gave me 14.2k ehp as opposed to the best named eanm 11.9k ehp. I don't have hull upgrades V for the t2 eanm. I could gotten higher ehp with an LSE+t2 hardener, but we did not have any shield logistics, and would have removed two low slots (edit: mid slots). Plus the 2x jamming rig downside would have reduced my shield hp as well.

Flying a blackbird with a fleet is often a suicide mission. Your blackbird cannot tank an enemy fleet. Two low slots just isn't enough. Your buffer tank is there to buy time for you to get away or simply last a little longer before you pop.

Things to do:
1) Get out of bubbles (if you have engineering V you have just enough PG to fit a 1600mm plate & a MWD+jammers => but no weapons. This shouldn't bother you. Weapons are the last thing you worry about fitting on a support ship.) A MWD helps you get out of bubbles much much faster than an AB.
2) Keep range on the fight
3) Stay aligned & warp out when you start taking damage
4) Return to the fight (at range whenever possible)

I went in knowing it would be a suicide mission flying a blackbird. lol, I'm more upset by the fact that we got only one large fight, and I still have two spare blackbirds gathering dust in Esa with no fights in their history. Before the class, I debated a lot whether to fit a mwd. I have energy mgmt 4 and energy sys oper 4, so my cap skills are not fantastic. Even using best named jammers, I need a lot of cap to keep them going. However, when using an ab, I am cap stable with the ab turned off. Yeah I know that's no big deal. I also went cheap and fitted t2 caldari jammers which eat more cap :@. I also had an auto-targeting system which ate some cap too. Guess fitting a y-t8 mwd would have been a better idea, and I should have kept the high slots unpopulated. I was afraid of blowing up my sig radius from 150m base and dying+running out of cap before I got out of the bubble.

I should also have been much more concerned about exiting the bubble, and probably overheated my ab to do so right at the start of the fight. This was not the first blackbird I've lost in a fight. But this time I stupidly thought, we have guardians, so blackbirds can actually tank now! Since most of our fights take place near a gate, I did not fit for jamming range, just strength (7.9 each, 9.1 overheated). Still, did not make use of the 58km optimal + 65km falloff.

On a weird note, I still don't understand how heat damage spreads. I place my ab right in the centre, with my jammers surrounding it. Yet after the initial 2 cycles of overheating jammers, my ab took more heat damage than the actual jammers I was overheating! Another mistake I made was I forgot to repair my ab after the initial jammer overheat, even though I was carrying paste.

But; logistic pilots are flying 100m+ ships and their pre-locks & watch list are usually prioritized with the other logistics pilots. Also, logistics are primaried just as (if not more often) than ECM ships.
...
And at the end of the day, a 5-10m T1 blackbird just doesn't get the same priority as a 100-150m T2 logistics ship.

I fit the BB's to be a bit more expensive (17mil), but the guardians were the most valueable ships we were fielding. A bb should never get priority over 100mil+ guardians repping each other. Besides, the guardians need to maintain a cap chain and would always have each other locked no matter what. The idea is that longer the bb's stay alive, the easier life becomes for the guardians (and everyone else).

[Skrewed]

I fit the BB's to be a bit more expensive (17mil), but the guardians were the most valueable ships we were fielding. A bb should never get priority over 100mil+ guardians repping each other. Besides, the guardians need to maintain a cap chain and would always have each other locked no matter what. The idea is that longer the bb's stay alive, the easier life becomes for the guardians (and everyone else).

As a guardian pilot I wish more people understood this about logistics ships. Our first priority (like any pilot) is to stay alive and that may mean that we either have to get out or keep the other logistics pilots up instead of the combat pilots. With that said, I've probably sacrificed more logistics ships trying to get that last bit of repping than any other ship.

Repping blackbirds can be extra tough. Given the cycle times on the reppers, if you just have one rep on a bb it's probably going to go down before the cycle ends. You often want two or three that are staggered but in a heavy fight that is often impossible.

[Silas]

The only feedback i can squeeze out of myself is, with "themed" ship names, it can be a bit hard to tell whether a ship name is "themed" or not. I was a bit puzzled whether, say, a ship named "Stiletto" (an actual BC) is shoe-related.

Yeah that would have been me, cane was called "Not Stilettos". I didn't consider people who have English as a second language - your English is better than most UK people however - so its actually a good thing to bring up.

Stiletto Heel in case you're still at a loss - women generally just call the whole shoe stiletto. Not something you'd necessarily understand now I come to think of it.

lol... also the Stiletto is an Interceptor...

Othran's point is valid, though, maybe we should have been clearer on that the ship name should contain the actual word shoe or something...

[Carenthor Loon]

Simon (guardian) did an awesome job by keeping me target locked even before the fight started

Simon is me btw; I had the other logistics, Caldak and the Blackbirds on my watch list, and was trying to keep the BBs up - I'm glad it worked, although I'm sure the other logistics pilots were repping their hearts out too! :-)

As the fight progressed the enemy was doing a good job of spreading damage (it seemed to me they were even firing a single volley into a ship to alpha the shield and take a bit of armour (and cause a broadcast to go out), before moving on); it got quite hectic switching reps amongst those taking damage.

I had to unlock people who had stopped taking damage (anyone with shield charging basically) in order to keep up, and you must've got lost somewhere along the way. As others have pointed out though it was always going to be difficult keeping a BB alive with it's relatively thin buffer.

[Melissa Blick]

Repping blackbirds can be extra tough. Given the cycle times on the reppers, if you just have one rep on a bb it's probably going to go down before the cycle ends. You often want two or three that are staggered but in a heavy fight that is often impossible.

Are light armor maintenance drones are better for blackbirds? Guardian bonus for logistics drones means they rep twice as much. They have a 5s cycle time, so staggering reps is not an a problem. 3-4 light drones could probably have done the job. I had considered fitting small smartbombs on the high slots (could have squeezed in 3 max) to take care of drones, but did not want to accidentally destroy logistics drones repping me.

[Ne0SHNIK]

Melissa, weren't you the one flying that BB with 3 jammers and shield tank? May I give my opinion on that fitting? =)

[Melissa Blick]

I was using a 1600mm plate, not LSE. Rather pointless hoping a guardian will rep your if you are not armor tanked. [blockquote][Blackbird, 1600mm plate] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Defender I 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Defender I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I[/blockquote] The second blackbird I pulled out had the second aml replaced by an auto-targeting system I. Could have kept both if I had AWU 1. But there weren't too many missile boats in that fight. Edit: Perhaps we should move the blackbird specific stuff to a separate thread. This is after all the class feedback thread, and should be reserved for stuff Caldak could use to improve the course Edit 2: I was running late for class the other day from Jita, so I came into H6 with a bait fitted Blackbird (5x LSE+2x invuls, 72k ehp, no jammers). Perhaps I accidentally put that in fleet at some point?

[Ne0SHNIK]

This is a good fitting (except I would probably fit an MWD instead of AB), but isn't the fitting that you entered into the fleet manager had 3 jammers, invulnerability field II, and Large Shield Extender in the middle? Nevermind I guess.

[Zin Leya]

If you are using defender missiles, I suggest using rocket launchers. They are cheaper, use less cpu and PG, and since it's defender missiles your range on them isn't actually a factor. Not sure if the 3sec cycletime is because of the launchers or defenders themselves though. Only drawback is that they can only load 10 defender missiles, so in prolonged engagements you are generally reloading them more often. Regarding the class itself, I personally think it was awesome. The practical part on the HSSR class taught me some new things I didn't know, and the all theory advanced class the nightbefore was a good recap. Maybe a bit much for the ones not alumni though. I would appreciate a little more warning if we are to head out to low/nullsec during a non-roam night. This time I had a jump clone in Esa, so I didn't lose much time flying to the neighbouring system to switch. Next time I might not have that foresight... During the roam I was another of the guardian pilots. Jaepee taught us a lot regarding logistic piloting, and I tried to use as much of it as possible during the fights. It was fun (if a bit hectic) to lock, repair and pray incomming damage isn't too much for my ship to handle... I did notice a few things during the roam but one I feel should be stressed a bit more: "I" was spoken on vent several times. This tells me that people could probably use a reminder on the voice coms formatting taught in basic. I can understand the stress of combat being part of the slip, but the mistake was repeated a bit too often for comfort. A spoken "I need armor" is actually worse then "Zin Leya needs armor", allthough both are bad compared to a "need armor"-broadcast...

[bcg]

i had a shield tanked blackbird and somehow managed not to lose it, which surprised me. i think if there's another roam like skrewed revenge that there needs to be the classes if the wolfpacks graduates are allowed to go, since i learned alot of important things that probably helped keep my ship. one thing i would have liked to have during the big fight was someone about 50ish km off the main fight so when i kept warping back to the fight i didn't land 10km from the enemy's target painting drakes and apocs. and the loki gank was great, my first time in wormhole space. would have been nice to find more red flashies on the low sec roam back to providence though, but that was out of our control. and not taking the 63 system route back was great, i even got to bed at 3 am, yay. how did that end up being 11 hours? seemed like less. anyways, thanks to caldak for fc'ing another freakin' sweet roam, and thanks to the agony guys. that mach killmail is unfair, 4bil and most of the class didn't get on the killmail :sad:. interceptors taking out a mach by themselves? !lol as usual, after people left we got more fun kills, and yay for not being the only bb at the end. and turning on all the jammers and then getting the lock on the vaga works well, and it saved the agony sabre, again yay. one thing i think needs changing is the advanced material before the class is mostly stuff i learned during basic or wolfpacks or the roams after, and there was a lot during the class that could be put in the reading a little deeper. and maybe explain the session and aggression timers in wolfpacks, since they are important, maybe not so much in basic/wolfpacks since smaller ships don't sit around on a gate as much, but it would be one of thos things that are good to know for later.

[Lorn Raffa]

...that mach killmail is unfair, 4bil and most of the class didn't get on the killmail :sad:. interceptors taking out a mach by themselves?...

They weren't *all* interceptors. I (the person who showed up as a pod) was in a rupture. If I had played it right, I might have actually survived, but I was webbing drones to kill them faster to try and keep the 'ceptors alive (although not shooting at them with guns... just using drones), and he was able to minimize transversal enough to tear me up.

On the minus side, I died. On the plus side, at least *I* was on the km .

[Othran]

Oh and to the guy who was popped on the Misaba gate and then got crap for it - Othran will take the hit for that one as my mic "failed"*. I couldn't tell you what to do quick enough and Caldak has an accent which some take a while to get used to. I live down this way so shout what you want at Esa - its not a worry. I have cruisers all over the place >.< *tip to the wise, don't have 64-bit TS and 32-bit vent clients active at once. The 64-bit client takes control of directsound input and doesn't always let go. As Baz/Hammereds yesterday and some guys in BDEAL can confirm. Silent Othran - a dream for some of you