48 replies to this topic

[Caldak]

Right class feed back. Different to normal class seen I can spread it over 2 days + adding the HSSR into it. Folks that skipped the Wolfpacks class, was the going ok pace wise and knowledge not too far out of what you were expecting and can cope with?

[Barret]

well i havent taken wolfpack. so heres what im thinking about the advanced portion....

took me a good 15 minutes to start clicking with your accent. but once i picked up an ear for it the advanced class was great.

the content and pace was just fine for my level of experience in the game. the brief review of basic concepts, and the touched on points of wolfpack, was helpful. good review and leveled the knowledge base for the members of the class. it was well executed. with a well placed bio break to act as a good separator between review and the advanced portion.

advanced itself was well laid out. i also liked the approach to the class. rather than just being lecture you got the class involved in the theory and actively got people thinking about priorities. about how to fit ships, how to think tactically and strategically, and how to mull over possibilities.

i can see where wolfpack would have been an aid to the learning for advanced. there is a substantial jump from the strategy and tactics of basic to the advanced curriculum. if you've played the game a while and/or really thought about PVP and then done it...then the course should have been review and application of what you already know. at 3 and a half years of game play the transition from basic to advanced wasn't difficult for me. it was a lot of fun and intriguing to see other peoples thoughts on different subjects. Im by no means a professional PVPer and at 67 million + SP i feel the course was well worth the effort and time. however, if i was at the skill and experience level i was at when i was 6 months old, or even a year old, the course would have just gone over my head without something in between basic and advanced. target selection and good independent thinking for a lot of the subjects require a good amount of knowledge of different ships and fittings, standard usages of an immense variety of items, and detailed experience with game mechanics.

the reading materials were good and useful as always.

however, with how the class was executed, im still unsure of the differences between advanced and advanced HSSR. the subject matter is very intertwined. i can see where HSSR is a specialized cruiser course. and advanced is simply an intro to cruisers and critical thinking. but with this class merging advanced with no wolfpack training, HSSR, battle cruisers, and logi its very hard to see where the defining differences are between what a normal advanced would offer and what a normal HSSR would offer. im keen on sitting in on a stand alone advanced and a stand alone HSSR to see how the content is laid out as compared to this course.

however, with just this combo course in mind, I could see a retooling of the cruiser series of courses. a more academic breakdown of the subjects might be a new series of courses. start with an "Intro to Cruisers" wherein cruiser strategies are taught. an intro to how to fit cruisers. basic roles of cruiser and their purposes: strengths and weaknesses. keep this course lecture and Q&A driven. allude to more advanced topics but stay focused on making sure everyone is on level of what it is to be a cruiser generalist. then go into specialty courses like "Advanced Cruiser Tactics: HSSR," "Advanced Cruiser Tactics: HSLR," and "Advanced Cruiser Tactics: Logistics and Fleet Support." make these classes more graduate level seminar driven. teach them as Caldak taught today's course: with topics that are discussed openly by the group. things like scenarios, how to fit a ship for this or that role, how to best pick targets, what to do when and where. no wrong answer driven learning where all of the pilot pool their experience and what they've learned from previous classes while the instructor narrates and directs the subject and flow of the course with small lectures on subject and providing examples and offering their specialized knowledge as the instructor. then do full combined roams with all of these course graduates as caldak is planning on this saturday. just food for though.

the TL/DR version:
me likey the class !lol

[Melissa Blick]

The class is just halfway over, so I'll reserve most of my comments and suggestions till the end. Some of this material is probably covered in tonight's lecture. While this class focuses on larger 0.0 fleets, I typically defend a wh from small gangs/solo ships, while flying solo/small gang. * 1 vs 1 scenarios: heavy tackling with a bc/cruiser, stealth bomber tactics, how to balance tank vs. gank etc. * 2 vs 2 scenarios: how to fit small gangs to complement each other e.g. 1 tackler + 1 dps/tank. * advanced 360 scan techniques (i know this was supposed to be part of wolfpacks) * scanning techniques: combat and deep space probes, what patterns to use for 5,6 or 7 probes. worth using sensor boosters to make scanning harder? (you probably cover this in the covops class) * gate camping: where to place bubbles, essential tactical bm's from gate, assigning sentry drones/fighters for sniping. Conversely, how to survive such a scenario. In general, I like the hypothetical scenarios Caldak has been presenting, and he should do more of those. Loved the ratting and bubble scenarios.

[Skrewed]

We have internally been considering removing the wolfpacks class and just having Basic, Advanced and then specialized advanced classes. But I think that we leave too many things out when we do that. Thus wolfpacks will return with some changes. We'll still have the focus on bookmarking and scanning/recon but will add in a new section specifically on bubbles. Anyone that has come to this Advanced class is welcome to come to that next wolfpacks for free (just reference that you will be coming as alumni and this class in your enrollment).

[dzu]

Amazing class, as usual (2nd half - I couldn't join the first half). I loved the hands-on experience with bubbles, scanning, and guardian repping. It's so much better to do it rather than just talk about it - especially for the 3D stuff. Many thanks to Caldak and Ferret for the advanced material. I personally got a lot out of Wolfpacks. In Basic I was a complete wide-eyed 0.0 noob . . . I still have a long ways to go, but Wolfpacks was a great "journeyman" transition from Basic. I certainly couldn't consider myself Advanced after one whirlwind Basic class! I got a lot out of the detailed discussions of bookmarks, fleet roles, timers, strengths/weaknesses of guns, as well as the discussion about destroyers and their fit types and the practical experience scanning someone down. Looking forward to the roam

[Barret]

alright. having gone through the HSSR day of training now...bedlam and chaos! but in a good way. that was a lot to digest in one sitting. however, the structure and the constant ship movements made the time slip away. the structure seemed a bit more chaotic today than yesterday. but there was an awful lot of material you tried to get in there to help us all out. it was well done all of the hands on demonstrations were worth their weight in gold. its one thing to talk about doing something..another again to see it done. the logi and ECM demonstrations were very useful. i think a lot of the fleet got a lot out of that. it will definitely help folks think about how force multiplier ships work...both in their use for the fleet and how to start to defeat them in others fleets. all of the bubble work was very good as well. from the initial clearing of bubble im Y-MP to our bubble games in agony space, i got a lot out of that that i didnt know about bubble mechanics. i was very pleased with the two day combo course. it has been worth the 8 and a half hours or so so far. and, im looking forward to the roam tomorrow. however, i believe ill still take a wolfpack course next time one comes up. no offense to caldak, but im sure there is more to be learned from a full wolfpack course than what caldak could squeeze into this combo. Ive learned a lot and hope to learn more form agony as time goes on.

[Aether]

...however, with how the class was executed, im still unsure of the differences between advanced and advanced HSSR. the subject matter is very intertwined. i can see where HSSR is a specialized cruiser course. and advanced is simply an intro to cruisers and critical thinking. but with this class merging advanced with no wolfpack training, HSSR, battle cruisers, and logi its very hard to see where the defining differences are between what a normal advanced would offer and what a normal HSSR would offer. im keen on sitting in on a stand alone advanced and a stand alone HSSR to see how the content is laid out as compared to this course.

These classes have been experimental that Caldak decided to put together, so the class content and supporting materials have not been ironed out yet. There are several other classes in development stage. There has been discussion about removing Wolfpacks from the sequence (normally a destroyer roam) and re-combining the few pvp mechanics this class goes over with PVP-Advanced and destroyer information with PVP-Flybys to open up weekends for more of these new classes featuring battlecruisers, interceptors, stealth bombers, logistics, and perhaps sniper hacs.

[razgar]

Another awesome class. All the topics were well-explained and demonstrated. It was a lot to absorb for a 0.0 noob, but I enjoyed every minute of it.

[Pesets]

[quote name='Aether]more of these new classes featuring battlecruisers' date=' interceptors, stealth bombers, logistics, and perhaps sniper hacs.[/quote']

So there are plans to resurrect Skirmishing and PVP-Bombers? Yay \o/

[Kazuma Matsuki]

Thoughts from a PvP noob: First - Thanks to Caldak for allowing those of us that haven't completed Wolfpacks to join. (I will be in the next wolfpack that I can be in) Second - I've had this toon for 3+ years, but due to timezones/work/interwebs, have been unable to get into "Eve". These classes have opened my eyes to the other side of Eve (other than running lvl IVs), and I sorta like it. Basic, having just completed it a few weeks ago, was/is very fresh in my mind (to the point of I keep my scanner open all the time now). Practical, be it scenarios or out of station was a good application of knowledge. Also good to poll others for their thoughts on who they would target first etc. Got me thinking about how others might think. Also highlighted my errors in thought processes. Logi demo was great - it goes without saying that - that role (and I suppose ECM too) is a class in and of itself (which I'll join if it is ever offered). ECM demo... I've played around a bit on sisi with ECM so I know the basics of it, and while it did provide decent information, it sort of drug along. It was good info, but unlike the logi demo, I was unable to see results (other than voice comms). Perhaps this could be refined a bit, and trimmed down some? This isn't a hit on ECM, as I truly see that as important. I look forward to the roam, and further outings. -kaz

[Eisenberg]

Excellent practical as always. The info on the positioning of an ambush fleet relative each other and relative the bubble was terrifically useful information. So was the stuff on logistics and the ecm work. You can never have too many little tidbits about how EvE mechanics work. And seeing it in action makes it 'stick' that much better. I did want to pipe up in defence of the Wolfpacks class. I've been flying a fairly successful thrasher for some time now largely as a result of that experience. And I think I'm probably a more effective cruiser pilot because of it as well. I realize that running a destroyer gang in Provi is probably not an enviable task. Perhaps you might combine the Wolfpacks and Fly-by classes? I don't know. There must be some way of keeping an intermediate level course though. In any case, keep up the great work AU. It's always a pleasure to listen and learn from you folks.

[CompleteFailure]

Not in the HSSR class, but as a graduate of Wolfpacks, i have to say that experience was just as valuable to me as BASIC. The roam was phenomenal as it's really impressive to see what 50-60 dessies can do to a hostile fleet with a good FC. I would certainly recommend keeping the class around, it was a ton of fun.

[Aether]

So there are plans to resurrect Skirmishing and PVP-Bombers? Yay \o/

After tourney ended I recruited some volunteers to look into putting together new classes, so hopefully at some point we will put a few together and run them through the public, but no eta on this yet.

Not in the HSSR class, but as a graduate of Wolfpacks, i have to say that experience was just as valuable to me as BASIC. The roam was phenomenal as it's really impressive to see what 50-60 dessies can do to a hostile fleet with a good FC. I would certainly recommend keeping the class around, it was a ton of fun.

The plan was to keep the class around, but restructure it into a specialty class that deals with destroyers and remove it as requirement for Advanced. Roaming in dessies is always good fun, but conceptually Wolfpacks never taught as much new information as Basic or Advanced.

[Othran]

Wasn't on the class section but thanks for taking the 5 large bubbles down on the Y-M gate guys - meant I didn't have to spend ages slowboating it in

[Eomar]

Wasn't on the class section but thanks for taking the 5 large bubbles down on the Y-M gate guys - meant I didn't have to spend ages slowboating it in

Our pleasure, Othran!

[Othran]

Yeah I'd been looking at the camp for 5 mins or so. Was 8-10 on the camp before you jumped in but they locked up an Atlas pod and the guy went mental - demanded (and got) an apology out of the campers. A few left then and you jumped in, bad ten minutes for Death Rhubarb really Really the only worry for me was the (sensor boosted) Sleip but he kept moving. Rest of it with a bit of luck I could have slowboated but Sleip inside 10km and moving worries me. The rest were pretty still. Luckily I didn't have to chance it

[Barret]

7 to 7.5 hour roam. something like that. very good experience for on the gate guardian work. cant wait for a full logi class. but it was so much fun and educational that ill be here in a logi for every HSSR roam that i can make in the future. great fun caldak! i dont have much to comment on how you ran the roam because for the roam itself logi was handled by other agony. much thanks to Jaepee Dee and Simon Bradley for the mini logistics class during the roam! will be in touch with logi and logi fitting questions. and if agony ever needs a spare logi on a class op just let me know. ill bring some logi fitted with rainbows and dreams and unicorns.... the only thing i can note negatively of the op itself was that after the 4.5 hour mark we had a lot more miss communications and mistakes. folks were odiously tired around then. no ones fault in particular. just really late/early for so many of the pilots.

[Eisenberg]

Again, good roam. Enjoyed it thoroughly. The one thing that I'd improve is that it wasn't completely clear when the fleet had become overwhelmed in a fight. In some fleets, you get a clear 'break, break, break; get out when you can' from the FC. In this case, I made the judgement call to get back in the skirmish after needing to warp off. I died as a result. Obviously, I knew the risk and I'm glad I went back in. But I'd rather have had a bit more of a sense of the tactical situation. No regrets. Just a thought. As always, great fun. Can't beat the adrenaline high.

[Shaalira]

While I was in a pod, I snapped some screenies of the big battle:

http://img687.images...k1i1jbattle.jpg


http://img517.images...1i1jbattle2.jpg

[Fedijken]

While I was in a pod, I snapped some screenies of the big battle:

http://img687.images...k1i1jbattle.jpg


http://img517.images...1i1jbattle2.jpg

[Pesets]

Well, it was a great roam apart from some lack of targets later on, but not much that you could do about that. The only feedback i can squeeze out of myself is, with "themed" ship names, it can be a bit hard to tell whether a ship name is "themed" or not. I was a bit puzzled whether, say, a ship named "Stiletto" (an actual BC) is shoe-related. I think copypasting a symbol into the ship name from some odd Unicode codepage could work better. Of course it's not a huge problem as you can always ask in fleet, and there's nothing quite like the whole fleet putting "choo-choo" in local, so the current system definitely has its merits as well

[Caldak]

My Take. First part was Hot Hot. 1 very good fight to show off what a Fleet can do. Those gaurdian pilots showed skill, talk about batisim under fire. And you thought you lack skill because you haven't done it under a fight conditions. Good use of points ect... good focus. Later on I could see that edge wearing off. Little things creeping in. But we are human. No more engagements, wonder why. Ever one knows we were out there and no takers. But tally for Kills comming soon. Anyone get some fraps? See ya next time.

[Mohawk]

Found me a new desktop background

[Corywyn]

I don't think anyone posted pacman vs. caldak yet:
(I didn't make the screen, someone linked it in fleet and it was p. hilarious imo)

Linkified to not break the forum ~


Had a lot of fun during the roam, was surprised how well the logistics worked in the fight we had with co2 - great jobs by you guys
Will try and write some more when I wake up some time later today.

[Kerzack]

Ha Ha nice pic - bet ya pac-man dies...