40 replies to this topic

[Copter_Pilot]

Another terriffic class!

I want to emphasize that I think the smartbombing incident (a) wasn't the result of mistakes -- sometimes one gets caught is all, and (2) I think it was a terriffic lesson. I'm a lot more conscious of SB's at this point.

Braeden -- excellent job as usual! :}

SPecial thanks to Skrewed, who did a really excellent CovOps/Recon section and to A-???? -- who ferried half the fleet from Nonni back to rejoin the first fleet.

Again thanks.

A-???? = A PECK

he loves being the hero

Glad everyone enjoyed and benefited from the class.

[Tea]

A follow-up on my earlier feedback:

I finished the class when we docked at the Agony station deep into 0.0. So I logged in this afternoon to fly back by myself to Empire space.

At one of the gates I warped right into a bubble a Falcon started to run a jammer on me, My first reaction was "ok I'm fucked" and then I remembered what you told us - rule 1 - don't panic, stay calm.

I AB'd out of the bubble and warped to the nearest planet, grabbing a bookmark in mid-space, warped back to that and then grabbed a further bookmark from that one to another planet. With a bit of patience and my new know-how of how to use the Scanner, I figured out when he got bored and went to (I think) another gate and I happily warped and jumped my way back to Nonni.

So your training has already saved my noob butt once, many thanks! 8)

Very good job for putting the theory into practice.


Impatience gets you killed
Patience gets you kills

[Gathoni]

Thanks for a fun evening, the class was quite good. I rate it highly and will be recommending it to others. I was particularly impressed by the quality of Agony pirates and will be having a long talk with our corp about how good we really are compared to how good we think we are. I will be aiming to take more courses with you and am happy to pay for the quality you provide. With that praise covered, you have requested some constructive criticism, so here are a few points for your consideration. Repetition is the mother of learning, or so they say. In the theory section, things were usually only said once. I would suggest that on some key points, it is worth saying something a second time, perhaps with different phrasing, just to make sure it sinks in. This is the reason teachers are so boring at parties, they always say things twice, but it does sink in. Overview settings are covered in the written section, but focus largely on making sure you can see the enemy. In the practical, we had to repeatedly orbit friendly units. May I suggest putting something about that in the written section so that players have that overview prepared before class. It will also avoid students targeting the instructor so they can keep track of him in a mess field of 50 ships. (Yes, that was me) A few words on what to do if you are lagged or fall behind the fleet could be helpful in herding all the cats. Some students are going to fall behind and a bit of guidance might save your rearguard some work. In the practical, a couple of other suggestions. Explain why people should rename their ships, perhaps in the scanning section. We were told to do so, but no one told us why. I only know because my corp taught me. Similarly, why is the watch list important? Again, we were told to put people on a watch list, but not why. My single biggest criticism would be on explanations of what had happened in combat. Our FC was an excellent FC, but explanations of what had happened were often thin. For a basic class, I had expected a lot more explanation, but for much of it, I was relying on what my corp had taught me. Why did we have to target the Hob II before the Ogre II when fighting the carrier? (Light drones eat frigates) Why was that Vagabond so hard to kill compared to everything else? (they are fast) Why shouldn’t we talk to that guy who is saying hi in local? (information is power) Why did we run away from the carrier just when it looked like it was going to go down? (SB firing a bomb at us, but I had to ask to find out what happened) Why do people put up so many bubbles? (cover all angles to a gate) Why did we blow up bubbles after we chased off the campers? (Still don’t know) Perhaps a teaching XO could cover this while the FC does FC stuff. Worst case, dock us up for a few minutes and teach, then head back out to fight some more. Finally, you may wish to point out to people that coffee is a diuretic and will make the wait until the next bio break really, really long! I was online until 5:15 AM and was taking way too much caffeine…

[Yanna Karr]

Overview settings are covered in the written section, but focus largely on making sure you can see the enemy. In the practical, we had to repeatedly orbit friendly units. May I suggest putting something about that in the written section so that players have that overview prepared before class. It will also avoid students targeting the instructor so they can keep track of him in a mess field of 50 ships. (Yes, that was me)

Or instructions on setuping two tabs. You could just link Skira Ranos' The guide to pirating - has an excellent section on overview setup.

Also, another problem - here's what the overview section says:

[blockquote]The columns that you should have visible are the following columns in this order: "ICON", "ALLIANCE", "CORPORATION", "DISTANCE", "NAME", "SIZE", "VELOCITY", "ANGULAR".[/blockquote]

And usually, our instructions were "ship type is primary". See the problem? There's no ship type on recommended overview settings

[Carinosa]

Just want to say thanks to Agony Unleashed for a great course and a great time roaming in nulsec! I can't wait until I'm able to sign up for subsequent courses!

[Bergon Darek]

I wasn't able to make it due to an emergency at work; as an alumnus I wasn't too worried about it, though. Regarding overview settings: if you read the materials on the wiki carefully I believe they mention that you can set up multiple tabs. Regarding orbiting a friendly: friendlies are visible in space. During a class, if you zoom out a bit they're this fuzzy ball of blue. If you click the ball, you'll select a friendly. Now orbit. Voila! No need to have a separate tab with friendlies. The smartbomb trap: I haven't seen specifics on what happened, but it sounds like the trap itself was something I was thinking of as a potential scenario if the targets had too much intel on the class. It doesn't sound like anyone could really be "blamed" for the incident, rather it sounds like a combination of bad timing and the general class environment on a roam.

[tatanka]

This weekend marked my second month in EVE and my first journey into 0.0. I've been looking forward to this class and it certainly delivered.

Excellent course reading materials. There were a couple of issues with the overview settings docs, but nothing that couldn't be adjusted on the fly during class.
The overview document looks to be pre-faction war, so where those fall in the color tag order may not be readily apparent. One of the columns suggested was SIZE. Perhaps it should be ship type. As an EVE newbie that is still learning all of the ship classes and names, I glazed over a bit when the FC called out the first target and I'm wondering "how big is an Eagle." I quickly changed the column to ship type and all was good. During the carrier engagement, we were instructed to target the drones and fighters. I found myself quickly setting up a tab for drones and fighters during the fight. I missed a section on useful additional tabs. Overview settings can be exported and imported now. Perhaps save out some of these overview settings and provide them to students. Still provide the manual setup tutorial though. The flight school section in Nonni was a great expansion and review of the reading materials. I'm still learning game mechanics and had a lot of my questions answered through course and classroom materials. Damn my slow typing for the quizzes though!

The smartbombing ambush was a great lesson in and of itself. Concentrating on the FC commands instead of panicking, I j...ed through the gate on command and didn't realize what had happened until we were clear of the gate. That's when I noticed I was halfway into armor and most of the fleet was missing. Kudos to the AU folks for getting the fleet back together and giving our ambushers a scare. Even while sitting in station, you knew exactly what was happening all those systems away by listening to battle comms.

The carrier battle really got the adrenaline pumping... especially when four drones targeted me. Remembering our instructors, I simply warped away to a planet and back into the fight.

I really enjoyed listening to the battle comms of the skirmishers and recon. I'm personally interested in learning more about EVE covops/recon and gained a lot from just listening and observing.

After this experience, I'm eager to look at joining a non-NPC corp and getting out of what has now become boring Empire space. Many thanks to Agony Unleashed for an outstanding course. Looking forward to a wolfpack class and some alumni basic fun in the future!

[Bamar]

One of the columns suggested was SIZE. Perhaps it should be ship type. As an EVE newbie that is still learning all of the ship classes and names, I glazed over a bit when the FC called out the first target and I'm wondering "how big is an Eagle." I quickly changed the column to ship type and all was good.[/list]

I've just gone ahead and updated that article so it should be up to date and accurate now.

[Krute]

Great class. I echo all above so I'll only mention a few thing I thought could have been more useful. 1. A screen capture of some ones window layout. They tried to explain it in class but a picture might have been mush more useful. Screen real estate was at a premium. 2. Scanner wasn't that useful because there were so many people. Maybe some kind of small squad class on the scanner to start. Maybe even have the squads find each other or some can in space. 3. Braeden mentioned the G15 keyboard. Possibly get a copy of the profile or same basic helpful hints on setting up your keyboard. 4. I know the two smartbombing domi's where a challenge but it would have been a great learning tool if we had worked through it. The Agony team was very calm and collected I think we could have done it. The one domi was down to 25% hull when I realized everyone have been fleet warped. 5. Maybe a smaller roam allowing everyone to come back and swap out ships to try something new. (Unless thats what the smartbombing domis were for, lol) 6. Prize was a great idea. I can't type so never really had a chance at it. Maybe give it out for number 2 above. Last is a question about ships, what kind of ships were our support folks flying and why? Just trying to better understand where things fit. Thanks again, Look forward to another class.

[Bamar]

Last is a question about ships, what kind of ships were our support folks flying and why? Just trying to better understand where things fit.

Mostly interceptors and interdictors for tackling or covert ops for scouting.

[Tonto Auri]

[quote name='Yanna Karr]I wanted to continue after the stop in Venal' date=' but my laptop had enough and overheated, turning off[/quote']
I'd recommend to pay a visit to service and ask them to check if you have dust packing in the heatsinks inside the case. I've had similar problem with a friend's NB, it was incapable of even simple internet navigation, not ot mention gaming. After some cleanup, it now runs smooth, cold and, what it more enjoyable, very silent.

[Vora]

Great class. Even as a "fresh" alumnus I got new impressions. e.g. the scan introduction by Skrewedup, the Venal route, etc. Compared to the last class the targets were thinly spread but the scouts found them nonetheless, even the "obligatory" carrier was there.... this was my forth roam with an Agony class and everytime I got to throw my little ship against carriers... is that normal or am I your carrier mojo? !lol Concerning the two Domis I think this was a well executed trap. I believe that probably a "mole" in Nonni reported our undocking and they waited for the scout to pass, then moved into position. Very well done and they got rewarded with a bunch of killmails just for sitting in the right location at the right time with the right armament. GF

[Tea]

this was my forth roam with an Agony class and everytime I got to throw my little ship against carriers... is that normal or am I your carrier mojo? !lol

Caps are now pretty common and we have a number of opponents who throw them around to scare us off (In their mind bigger is better etc). Unfortunately for them a carrier or two appearing on grid doesn't send us scurrying off, it sends us into kill carrier mode Even if we can't kill the carrier we can pin it down and pop his expensive fighters. This was the first one to self destruct while tackled though.

Concerning the two Domis I think this was a well executed trap. I believe that probably a "mole" in Nonni reported our undocking and they waited for the scout to pass, then moved into position. Very well done and they got rewarded with a bunch of killmails just for sitting in the right location at the right time with the right armament. GF

The class dates are public so we frequently have people ready and waiting to try this. It is rare that they manage to pull it off and get some kills, but it keeps them interested and we get to kill them another time


Remember that if you end up with a ship at the end of the night then that is a bonus, anything you undock is already classed as lost...

[Bamar]

Remember that if you end up with a ship at the end of the night then that means you obviously didn't take on enough and missed an opportunity to go down in a blaze of glory, anything you undock is already classed as lost...

Fixed

[Tea]

Remember that if you end up with a ship at the end of the night then that means you obviously didn't take on enough and missed an opportunity to go down in a blaze of glory, anything you undock is already classed as lost...

Fixed

Sorry boss

[Shinara K]

Great Class, extremely informative and well structured, cant wait for the wolfpack class. Thank you to all the instructors and everyone in Agony Unleashed who helped.