[Devblog] Self destruct changes finally coming.
#1
Posted 27 July 2012 - 04:54 PM
For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.
Loot Drops
Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
Kill Reports
Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involved player aggression will not generate a kill-report
By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it.
#2
Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:25 PM
BASIC - 1403091800 | WOLFPACKS - 2103091800 | ADVANCED - 0404091800
#3
Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:29 PM
#4
Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:02 PM
#5
Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:09 PM
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#6
Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:18 PM
People couldn't be counted to post their lossmails. It is best this way I think.
ah, didn't think of that. Although without some flag or other indication it was a S/D I am now waiting for the first API verified noobship carrier kill.
#7
Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:22 PM
#8
Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:27 PM
[20:58:13] CCP Unifex > loving the Tweed thing
#9
Posted 27 July 2012 - 06:54 PM
Improvements? In MY Eve?
Naah.. They'll just :ccp: all over it and the whole killmail system goes crash and every single killmail ever done goes corrupt.
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#10
Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:09 PM
#11
Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:22 PM
Naah.. They'll just :ccp: all over it and the whole killmail system goes crash and every single killmail ever done goes corrupt.
Now THAT would be a beautiful, beautiful dream come true.
#12
Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:05 PM
#13
Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:59 PM
Naah.. They'll just :ccp: all over it and the whole killmail system goes crash and every single killmail ever done goes corrupt.
Now THAT would be a beautiful, beautiful dream come true.
Seriously, if you think about it, KM (and by extension killboards) are terrible for conflict in the game. They encourage people to be risk-averse.
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#14
Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:08 PM
Seriously, if you think about it, KM (and by extension killboards) are terrible for conflict in the game. They encourage people to be risk-adverse.
Averse. Sorry, this one gets on my nerves.
#15
Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:58 AM
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/11350-open-pvp-avanced-hssr-2300-15th-advanced-2100-for-16th-17th-july/]ADVANCED HSSR -1807102100[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/11588-closed-pvp-wolfpacks-class-august-2829-1800/]WOLFPACKS-201008281800[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/12728-fullpvp-covops-nov-28-1800-venue-changeread/]COVOPS - 281101800[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/13477-closed-pvp-skirmish-prototype-class-29th-30th-january-1300/]SKIRMISH-20110129[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/13315-closed-pvp-flybys-february-12th-1800/]FLYBYS-20110212[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/16195-closed-stealth-bombers-20111119-2000/]Stealth Bombers 20111119[/link]
#16
Posted 28 July 2012 - 02:16 AM
Back 5 minutes, already causing trouble
- Dybbuch
#17
Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:34 AM
WOLFPACKS-20091215
#18
Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:13 PM
BASIC - 1403091800 | WOLFPACKS - 2103091800 | ADVANCED - 0404091800
#19
Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:41 PM
#20
Posted 28 July 2012 - 01:50 PM
That was always my preferred solutions. The kill is recorded and assigned to the agressors but the pilot could issue a final FU to them in denying the loot. Tears on both sidesI guess denying the loot with a Self Desctruct would actually serve a function, so I'd be fine if that stayed in, but at least the thing producting a kill mail is good. I always hated the hoopla of denial surrounding self-destruct.
Of course during CSM4 the merc on the council wanted both the killmail (for contract verification purposes) and the loot dropping and strangely this exact change goes in while he is on the council again
#21
Posted 28 July 2012 - 06:53 PM
BASIC - 1403091800
WOLFPACKS - 2103091800 | FLYBYS - 20110212
ADVANCED - 0404091800 | ADVANCED HSSR - 0805102300
COVOPS - 1804090001 | SKIRMISH - 20110129 | BOMBERS - 20111119
#22
Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:40 AM
WH space you just have to expect to leave your ship floating in space if you want to leave system without it.Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD.
If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place.
A good change IMO.
If you want to clone jump you can just find somebody to kill your pod.
See how this argument works both ways
People are risk adverse enough already so this elitist attitude of "Don't undock if you don't want to lose your ship" is one of the reasons people blob up (or never leave highsec). This change doesn't move that balance much I admit, but the attitude persists. HTFU people say, yet that very same phrase also worked both ways "You wanted my kill mail, should have brought more DPS, HTFU" or "My loot, you can't has, HTFU"
The old system was broken, mostly because any ship size took the same amount of time to self destruct. Smaller ships (such as those we fly) very rarely got time to SD (and we were not in the midset of denying kills in this way) so of course we only really see it used on capitals from the denied killmail side.
The new system flip flops totally the other way when they should have gone for a balance instead.
For the record, least anyone thinks I have a particular axe to grind, I have never self destructed a fitted ship and I have been in a number of situations where a hostile cap has done so. I just like to see tears on both sides of these type of changes
#23
Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:36 AM
WH space you just have to expect to leave your ship floating in space if you want to leave system without it.
Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD.
If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place.
A good change IMO.
If you want to clone jump you can just find somebody to kill your pod.
See how this argument works both ways
How do you get out of a WH without SD? It's all well and good demanding you leave your ship behind but you still can't get out!
Also, not everyone wants to wait for someone else to blow them up to pod hop. I definitely think there are still uses for Self Destruct.
Why is "don't undock if you don't want to lose your ship" and elitist attitude? It might well have something to do with people being risk averse but I don't see it as elitist...
Finally, if you don't want people to just "blob up" don't discourage small gangs by saying "you need moar dps or no carrier KM for you". I do agree with the loot thing though, if you SD I'm quite happy for it to destroy loot (or at least make the percentage drop worse or something).
#24
Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:55 AM
Back 5 minutes, already causing trouble
- Dybbuch
#25
Posted 31 July 2012 - 11:08 AM
Because it is funnyFuck SD not giving you any loot anyway, if we spend the 15 minutes or so to break a Titan, what's to stop him just setting it at the last two minutes?
With the suggested SD changes you would have got a killmail to prove the kill took place and the pilot will have still lost his titan. I doubt we give a shit about the loot from a titan compared to actually killing it in the first place
Yes well I wasn't being fully serious there, I was just pointing out that people will use the same argument both ways on these things. If you didn't want to get stuck in a wormhole you shouldn't have gone in there in the first place etc.
WH space you just have to expect to leave your ship floating in space if you want to leave system without it.
Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD.
If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place.
A good change IMO.
If you want to clone jump you can just find somebody to kill your pod.
See how this argument works both ways
How do you get out of a WH without SD? It's all well and good demanding you leave your ship behind but you still can't get out!
True but then is a self destruct the best way to do this, see post below.Also, not everyone wants to wait for someone else to blow them up to pod hop. I definitely think there are still uses for Self Destruct.
Because this is the stock answer given to anyone who complains about any PVP loss. Yes people are risk adverse in the main (suicidal frig and dessy pilots aside ) but in my time on the CSM I had to deal with a number of people who think they are superior to other players because they embrace PVP (usually in blobs where they are actually pretty safe ) while others hide from it. Eve is certainly a PVP game at the core, but it's not all PVP is ship explosionsWhy is "don't undock if you don't want to lose your ship" and elitist attitude? It might well have something to do with people being risk averse but I don't see it as elitist...
Oh I'm not promoting blobbing, I was just pointing out that we've gone from a situation where SD was the way to hide expensive stupidity to a pointless mechanic (in combat) without passing through a more reasonable phase.Finally, if you don't want people to just "blob up" don't discourage small gangs by saying "you need moar dps or no carrier KM for you". I do agree with the loot thing though, if you SD I'm quite happy for it to destroy loot (or at least make the percentage drop worse or something).
To make things clearer with all the quoting, I'll use the next post instead