89 replies to this topic

[Bormand]

When Caldak was searching for 16 minmatar bs pilots for smarties, I express the fact I cannot fly minmatar bs, nor large smart bombs. The answer I got was "Caldak don't need to know what you can't do".... Ok, but maybe FC can read between the lines and understand he has all my support , and I would love to do it , but I cant.

Yeah, sorry about being a bit harsh there, but forming up was absolute murder and people were spamming fleet chat.

When Caldak is trying to get a complex fleet set up, he doesn't need moral support. I appreciate that you wanted to give it, but just that kind of thing really kills the FCs focus and adds unneeded clutter. When the FC asks for something, let him know if you can provide it, if not, hold your peace.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but there is a time and place for everything.

Got your point , more focus information is better, I could express "feelings" after the fact ...
Thanks

[Othran]

When Caldak was searching for 16 minmatar bs pilots for smarties, I express the fact I cannot fly minmatar bs, nor large smart bombs. The answer I got was "Caldak don't need to know what you can't do".... Ok, but maybe FC can read between the lines and understand he has all my support , and I would love to do it , but I cant.

Yeah, sorry about being a bit harsh there, but forming up was absolute murder and people were spamming fleet chat.

When Caldak is trying to get a complex fleet set up, he doesn't need moral support. I appreciate that you wanted to give it, but just that kind of thing really kills the FCs focus and adds unneeded clutter. When the FC asks for something, let him know if you can provide it, if not, hold your peace.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but there is a time and place for everything.

It wasn't so much enthusiasm as confusion glepp. Maybe next time Caldak is inbound with IRC (I'm sure they will be back) then Caldak just stays with them on whatever TS channel? XO can then sort out things a bit easier in terms of squads etc and just keeping things ticking along while we wait. I found it quite confusing and I had a reasonable idea who was coming on the roam but I think Caldak/XO maybe just keep it seperate on voice until we're all ready to go or at least in the same region?

If nothing else it gets confusing who's being shouted at

[AkJon Ferguson]

Unlock please

[Othran]

Unlock please

Aye I need to go to bed

[Sir Locutus]

After few roams i feel now more like ECM pilot. More reports this time and better battle awareness, no problem with jamming called targets, and was ready to jam next ones. maybe next time will be better to bring falcon with cloak in case of hot drop on claked scout (8G-MQV fight ). I tried to be in good range and safe distance to jam incomming fleet but after they landed i was 50-70k from them , got killed as primary i think ( My Blackbird wasnt well tanked ). Next time will try to improve keeping safer range 120km-150km from fight.

[AkJon Ferguson]

After few roams i feel now more like ECM pilot. More reports this time and better battle awareness, no problem with jamming called targets, and was ready to jam next ones. maybe next time will be better to bring falcon with cloak in case of hot drop on claked scout (8G-MQV fight ). I tried to be in good range and safe distance to jam incomming fleet but after they landed i was 50-70k from them , got killed as primary i think ( My Blackbird wasnt well tanked ). Next time will try to improve keeping safer range 120km-150km from fight.

I notice you had a sebo fitted. Maybe it makes sense with your skills, but another Minmatar Jammer would have been handy to jam Carl Takashi, eh? (Especially if, like me, you tend to stay within heavy missile range anyway.)

Most of our Blackbirds were rainbow fit (1 of each) and had 4 jammers. That works great when we outnumber our opponents (early in the roam,) but not so great when we fight a foe with equal numbers (later in the roam.) If each blackbird has 2 racial types, you're going to significantly reduce redundancy. FC might even make the tactical decision to go 50-50 Caldari-Minmatar so that he knows we're at a huge advantage against a cane gang (and can engage a gang we otherwise couldn't,) but will have almost no ECM support against a Zealot gang (and might avoid a gang we otherwise would engage.) Also helpful in calling primaries (if all our jammers are caldari/minmatar then we'd primary the amarr/gallente boats ofc, and put our remaining ewar on those types.)

One of my favorite points in the whole roam was when Caldak made an effort to get the Hurricane pilots names to the ECM squad. That's exactly what's needed before every close fight. So who had Carl Takashi? Was the ECM squad communicating with each other?

[Angelio]

By mine opinion communication within the EMC squad could be better but I find it satisfactory as it was now. More than once I had jammer on some cane and when I heard that it was jammed by some other pilot and my cycle was at the end I automatically hit next target. If there were no minm ships on grid I just assigned the jamer to first unjammed ship. To bed about that last fight, if we had them land in the bubble we could probably have all high DPS ships jammed with our numbers…

[raubrey]

First, I wanted to thank Bormond for making the video, and the last one if that was the case. If I'd had a tackler I would have been able to contribute more ==instead I bought an unused apoc, leaving me with a thrasher. I was lost on the last ECM fleet, but this one seemed less hectic and I'll give it a shot again. Next time though I'll take on tackler if the position is needed. I like the role and feel I thrive in it. Also, I liked Othran's take on "Angering Caldak" -- The roam started off in anger mode in my opinion (why I bought the Apoc ) but seemed to be calmer soon after. Later on frequently losing point induced justified ire as it does in most fleets I've been in or FC'd. But yeah, I can't see that Caldak holds a grudge. I totally fubared last time with ECM/ posting in local by mistake and yet pulled up my bootstraps, came back and was glad I did. Kudos to all....some good work out there.

[Caldak]

So we learn together. I just Loooove FC'ing. When I see the same guys in ECM, I do a mental tick. Taken care of. The lot are sorting it out better every roam. Do we have enough intel so you can get those jams orginized. Note to my self: after every Break, recheck fleet compensation. The poor 2 boys out in the covert ops. Someone nicked my pad at the computer. I usually write names down next to my scouts and skirmishes and Cloaky eyes. My apologies. The most thankless job out there, but so vital. Lets say with the class next weekend you will see how useful you can be. Same as "KISS" when you have someone in the role that knows what a FC wants from them you become my left hand. Now the tackle, running late, missing targets, its like a person has 80 people giving up 3 - to who knows hours of their time. I'm still looking for that 1 good fight were we not going to be Titan dropped "Still hasn't happened". Were in game do you go to find a good hard fight. You don't that's the answer. As Othran said, we as FC's need to breath and go with the flow. So whats a good fleet size fore me. 60 - 70 is sweet. 4 - Skirmishes. 2 light interdicators and 1 heavy bubbler. 1 squad of ECM. 1 squad of Heavy tackle. 1 squad of Destroyers. 2 squads of Deeps. and some redundancy with the other 10 spots. I'm a waiting the expansion, more people back in and off to find some targets. Yes Eve and other games slowed down with the release of 2 big titles. So I'm going to do a a Alumni only group. <- only Alumni so you can show me what you can do. Wormhole thru to groups that can do a semi decent response gangs. Yes send me info.

[Sir Locutus]

After few roams i feel now more like ECM pilot. More reports this time and better battle awareness, no problem with jamming called targets, and was ready to jam next ones. maybe next time will be better to bring falcon with cloak in case of hot drop on claked scout (8G-MQV fight ). I tried to be in good range and safe distance to jam incomming fleet but after they landed i was 50-70k from them , got killed as primary i think ( My Blackbird wasnt well tanked ). Next time will try to improve keeping safer range 120km-150km from fight.

I notice you had a sebo fitted. Maybe it makes sense with your skills, but another Minmatar Jammer would have been handy to jam Carl Takashi, eh? (Especially if, like me, you tend to stay within heavy missile range anyway.)

Most of our Blackbirds were rainbow fit (1 of each) and had 4 jammers. That works great when we outnumber our opponents (early in the roam,) but not so great when we fight a foe with equal numbers (later in the roam.) If each blackbird has 2 racial types, you're going to significantly reduce redundancy. FC might even make the tactical decision to go 50-50 Caldari-Minmatar so that he knows we're at a huge advantage against a cane gang (and can engage a gang we otherwise couldn't,) but will have almost no ECM support against a Zealot gang (and might avoid a gang we otherwise would engage.) Also helpful in calling primaries (if all our jammers are caldari/minmatar then we'd primary the amarr/gallente boats ofc, and put our remaining ewar on those types.)

One of my favorite points in the whole roam was when Caldak made an effort to get the Hurricane pilots names to the ECM squad. That's exactly what's needed before every close fight. So who had Carl Takashi? Was the ECM squad communicating with each other?

Sensor booster was just to extend my targeting range up to 150km , so i could use my ecm from safe distance ( because of paper tank ). My ECM's optimal is around 120km + 73km falloff . Primary goal of ECM squad in my oppinion is to jam enemy dps / logis / ecm. HM are just add-on so if im in range im using them , it not i just do what i'm supose to do jam enemies and stay alive. I Had 2 matar , 1 amar and 1 caldari ecm. Maybe splitting 50/50 with 2 racials is good but only if it's planned and coordinated , it not my plan is 2 matar / 1 caldari / 1 amar. Most ships in pvp are matar and gallente before rebalancing its not used almost at all. In each of our encouters i had valid racial targets, so my choice wasnt bad i think.

I fly in falcon lately with my corp and i find it handy to have ecm in fleet, thats what i have learned flying with agony.

[AkJon Ferguson]

replying to Caldak's last post (quotes are him)

"When I see the same guys in ECM, I do a mental tick. Taken care of. The lot are sorting it out better every roam. Do we have enough intel so you can get those jams organized."

As far as flying the boats, I think sure they're getting more comfortable, but I think they're waiting to hear from you how you want the jams organized and who is doing the organizing. Until they hear that from you they will each do their own thing and you'll get too much redundancy. Appoint an ECM pilot to organize jams each roam (tell him how you want it done) and encourage the ECM squad to EVEmail you at the conclusion of the roam on how things went. If things went well (sensible efforts to reduce redundancy were made and communicated well in accordance with your instructions,) great. If not, appoint someone else the next time.

"Note to my self: after every Break, recheck fleet compensation."

Wait, we get compensation? Damn, I've been missing out!

"Now the tackle, running late, missing targets, its like a person has 80 people giving up 3 - to who knows hours of their time."

I would never make 50 people sit and wait for an hour and a half in real life. So I would never do it on the Internet either. It's just common courtesy.

"I'm still looking for that 1 good fight were we not going to be Titan dropped "Still hasn't happened".
Were in game do you go to find a good hard fight. You don't that's the answer."

We gank lots of people and don't beat ourselves up for blobbing. That last gang on the last roam could have been an epic fight, but the blackbirds would have had to be almost-perfect/organized, with more minmatar jammers (we had 8).

"As Othran said, we as FC's need to breath and go with the flow.
So whats a good fleet size fore me.
60 - 70 is sweet.
4 - Skirmishes.
2 light interdicators and 1 heavy bubbler.
1 squad of ECM.
1 squad of Heavy tackle.
1 squad of Destroyers.
2 squads of Deeps.
and some redundancy with the other 10 spots."

What does the destroyer squad bring us other than paper-thin 'primary me' boats that get popped early in the roam and then either drop or spend the next few hours trying to catch back up? 60-70 may be sweet, but if we have 30 drakes/canes 2 dictors, 1 hic, 10 blackbirds, 4 skirmishers, 2 scouts, 1 tam artist we can pee in a whole lot of cheerios.

[Vora]

...
What does the destroyer squad bring us other than paper-thin 'primary me' boats that get popped early in the roam and then either drop or spend the next few hours trying to catch back up? 60-70 may be sweet, but if we have 30 drakes/canes 2 dictors, 1 hic, 10 blackbirds, 4 skirmishers, 2 scouts, 1 tam artist we can pee in a whole lot of cheerios.

I'd think that the dessies are for the opposing tacklers and dictors. When I'm tackling I don't fear Drakes and Canes, dessis and ceptors (and Drams ) are dangerous.

[AkJon Ferguson]

...
What does the destroyer squad bring us other than paper-thin 'primary me' boats that get popped early in the roam and then either drop or spend the next few hours trying to catch back up? 60-70 may be sweet, but if we have 30 drakes/canes 2 dictors, 1 hic, 10 blackbirds, 4 skirmishers, 2 scouts, 1 tam artist we can pee in a whole lot of cheerios.

I'd think that the dessies are for the opposing tacklers and dictors. When I'm tackling I don't fear Drakes and Canes, dessis and ceptors (and Drams ) are dangerous.

I think you should add drones to your overview. Then again, maybe it's best to remain fearless.

Besides, even with no TP (afaik) I managed this on Friday. (Rest of the fleet must have been asleep.) They can either leave their MWD off and eat my drones or turn it on and eat my heavies.

[Vora]

I think you should add drones to your overview. Then again, maybe it's best to remain fearless.

Thanks for the warning, but that's why I have two Gatling AC II with Barrage S on my Ares fits ...and a dedicated drones/probes tab.
So far I have lost 4 tacklers to 2 x Dram, 1 x Curse, 1 x pure unadulterated stupidity, never to drones. On the other hand Warrior IIs are the only things I kill when I fly tackle.

[Sir Locutus]

For me Kiss Club is being Agony for a few hours a month, without quitting my friends in my corp, sharing and learning in the same time. And yes, it can be seen a bit exclusive... And yes, after each roam and each thing I am learning , I will bring more value in my corp and I can teach my friends what I am learning

I'll fly with you guys as long as you will let me do it .
Thanks

Same here , except we dont need fancy names , we can fly as alumni.

[Silas]

And one more thing
Can someone explain what is this KISS CLUB thingy?

There is no KISS Club. There are only Alumni.

See this thread for details: www.agony-unleashed.com/index.php?/topic/16352-kiss-no-more/

I'll fly with you guys as long as you will let me do it .
Thanks

You're welcome to fly with us on any class or alumni roam, just like any other alumni

[Kaeda Maxwell]

Feedback; 1. Break Break is for when the entire fleet is in ***imminent*** danger your recon report from 4 jumps away does not qualify unless you're staring at the Titan and the fleet they're about to bridge on top of us with it. Please use the word recon. I cease responding to break break otherwise that is bad. 2. If you want alumni in dedicated tackle just say so Caldak, I'm perfectly happy to fly a tackle fitted Veng or Jag for every alumni roam from now until the end of time. I love assault ships and will love you too for providing opportunities to fly them. A simple request for a couple tackle fitted T2 frigs with the main fleet, I can assure you at least one and I'm cool with not getting on mails because I gotta catch that drake 50 out. *Also nano-drakes is fast the one that got away? 14,5 km! so close with my ruppy but no cigar :-( 3. People will step up more if you sound angry less Most regular alumni know how it is, but I'd not be surprised if some peopel that don't see through it are afraid to open their mouths This is EVE well past Euro TZ midnight on a Friday night some of these people might not be naturally extravert's.... ;-)

[Xolanie]

Not the best Agony roam I've been on TBH but through no fault from Caldak - I guess playing Skyrim was more important for alot of people than flying virtual space ships

There seemed to be a few jittery players in the fleet, I wasn't getting a verry calm feel... but that could just be my interpritation,

The delay didn't bother me at all, I'm not new to MMO's and realise these events take some organising on a whim.

Reliable TAM artist, thanks Robbbin!

Huge thx to Robbbin, TAM artists are the single most important factor in the fleet to keep the Jammers alive... ironically even tho I have a -10 standing with him as I'm Razor Alliance - god bless Agony roams

After few roams i feel now more like ECM pilot. More reports this time and better battle awareness, no problem with jamming called targets, and was ready to jam next ones. maybe next time will be better to bring falcon with cloak in case of hot drop on claked scout (8G-MQV fight ). I tried to be in good range and safe distance to jam incomming fleet but after they landed i was 50-70k from them , got killed as primary i think ( My Blackbird wasnt well tanked ). Next time will try to improve keeping safer range 120km-150km from fight.

I notice you had a sebo fitted. Maybe it makes sense with your skills, but another Minmatar Jammer would have been handy to jam Carl Takashi, eh? (Especially if, like me, you tend to stay within heavy missile range anyway.)

Most of our Blackbirds were rainbow fit (1 of each) and had 4 jammers. That works great when we outnumber our opponents (early in the roam,) but not so great when we fight a foe with equal numbers (later in the roam.) If each blackbird has 2 racial types, you're going to significantly reduce redundancy. FC might even make the tactical decision to go 50-50 Caldari-Minmatar so that he knows we're at a huge advantage against a cane gang (and can engage a gang we otherwise couldn't,) but will have almost no ECM support against a Zealot gang (and might avoid a gang we otherwise would engage.) Also helpful in calling primaries (if all our jammers are caldari/minmatar then we'd primary the amarr/gallente boats ofc, and put our remaining ewar on those types.)

One of my favorite points in the whole roam was when Caldak made an effort to get the Hurricane pilots names to the ECM squad. That's exactly what's needed before every close fight. So who had Carl Takashi? Was the ECM squad communicating with each other?

Dissagree - Sensor Booster makes a huge difference, a BB with 4 jams for the full roam is better than one with 5 jams for half the roam.

We tried the 2 racial setup and it failed, unfortunatly you can never get away from spies giving away intell on jammer setups.

ECM communication could be better, i think we should use EvE chat in the Agony ECM channel as ECM chatter over TS can take up most of the air time or by the time you get a break in TS chat to speak then your 20 second jam no longer applies. Also ECM isnt as organised when John isn't in the fleet, he puts in alot of effort.

By mine opinion communication within the EMC squad could be better but I find it satisfactory as it was now.

More than once I had jammer on some cane and when I heard that it was jammed by some other pilot and my cycle was at the end I automatically hit next target. If there were no minm ships on grid I just assigned the jamer to first unjammed ship.

To bed about that last fight, if we had them land in the bubble we could probably have all high DPS ships jammed with our numbers…

I dont know what the magic answer is for this but you are right, It would be great if CCP introduced something to show if your target is already jammed but whats the chances of that...

We need some form of communication like our own chat (as above).

Plus I dont think it's such a bad thing if 2 people jam same target when numbers are managable, it's nice to know if my jam fails then there is a chance someone elses wont.

Sensor booster was just to extend my targeting range up to 150km , so i could use my ecm from safe distance ( because of paper tank ). My ECM's optimal is around 120km + 73km falloff . Primary goal of ECM squad in my oppinion is to jam enemy dps / logis / ecm. HM are just add-on so if im in range im using them , it not i just do what i'm supose to do jam enemies and stay alive. I Had 2 matar , 1 amar and 1 caldari ecm. Maybe splitting 50/50 with 2 racials is good but only if it's planned and coordinated , it not my plan is 2 matar / 1 caldari / 1 amar. Most ships in pvp are matar and gallente before rebalancing its not used almost at all. In each of our encouters i had valid racial targets, so my choice wasnt bad i think.

I fly in falcon lately with my corp and i find it handy to have ecm in fleet, thats what i have learned flying with agony.

This... that 100k+ distance is the BB tank

replying to Caldak's last post (quotes are him)

"When I see the same guys in ECM, I do a mental tick. Taken care of. The lot are sorting it out better every roam. Do we have enough intel so you can get those jams organized."

As far as flying the boats, I think sure they're getting more comfortable, but I think they're waiting to hear from you how you want the jams organized and who is doing the organizing. Until they hear that from you they will each do their own thing and you'll get too much redundancy. Appoint an ECM pilot to organize jams each roam (tell him how you want it done) and encourage the ECM squad to EVEmail you at the conclusion of the roam on how things went. If things went well (sensible efforts to reduce redundancy were made and communicated well in accordance with your instructions,) great. If not, appoint someone else the next time.

What does the destroyer squad bring us other than paper-thin 'primary me' boats that get popped early in the roam and then either drop or spend the next few hours trying to catch back up? 60-70 may be sweet, but if we have 30 drakes/canes 2 dictors, 1 hic, 10 blackbirds, 4 skirmishers, 2 scouts, 1 tam artist we can pee in a whole lot of cheerios.

I'm certainly getting more comfortable jamming in a Caldak fleet, confidence is building.

I agree with apointing someone to call ECM and I think it should be Caldak, he knows whats going on more than most and he is reliable, we should have a backup also but who is going to be available on a regular basis to fill the roll?

I kind of agree with the destroyer comment, It would be nice if the Alumni destroyer pilots up there game a little, but I like the idea that ppl can bring any ship they feel comfortable in but I was thrilled to c all the battlecruisers, I thought "this is going to be good".

My 2 cents....

Xol

[Othran]

Also ECM isnt as organised when John isn't in the fleet, he puts in alot of effort.

As did O'Kais before him. They are Agony now rather than alumni so you shouldn't expect to see them much on these roams. They have more than enough to learn/do in Agony.

We need to be realistic about the Alumni roams.

Its always going to be a transient group, many of whom are more interested in KM whoring than anything else. At the present time a fair proportion of the rest are being recruited by Agony, which is cool as long as we all remember that the alumni roams depend on some effort/experience/talent - all of the things Agony are interested in too. Naturally enough if people are putting a large chunk of time into organising this then they may think "might as well apply for Agony as do this", and that seems to have been happening a fair bit recently.

So just because someone organised something last time I wouldn't expect it to happen next time. Unfortunately I think a lot of you DO expect just that and it simply isn't going to happen over more than a couple of roams.

Not a rant or near to one, just some realism about this. As people get better then they WILL get recruited by someone (if they want), so don't expect the alumni group to get much better than "average" at PvP. As long as you learn something new each time then that's fine and all you can ask.

Edit - Agony class support put in the effort for class roams, can't expect them to do the same for free alumni roams mmm?

[Angelio]

And they shouldn’t do it to mach. If we fly in class roam I expect to have 50 people for whom that roam is there first or second occasion to do some organise fleet PVP. But if we do alumni roams I expect we have 30-50 people who have some PVP experience and can take any role in fleet. I was actually considering dropping my BlackBird and taking a Hawh for heavy tackle.

[John McGuirk]

I still love you guys, but yes there's a ton to learn and do behind the curtain. Alumni roams have been my entire playtime for the past couple months, so I just grabbed the forum bait and applied. Appreciate the kind words about the ECM but honestly the only things missing from the alumni stuff without me are a little enthusiasm and a lot of words. As a whole, the alumni are far more knowledgable and experienced than me, and if you're interested in something, pick it up and run with it. I mean I did ECM because I liked it, and I learned as I went. I pretty much went out on a limb, out of my comfort zone trying to organize and lead (I'm not an organizer or leader), made mistakes, and just kept going. I mean look at how riled up I get AkJon . Here's a guy with probably thousands of hours of experience on me who characterized ECM as winbutton weenies. Then he comes out on a couple roams in Blackbirds, and has strong, constructive opinions about how ECM should be used. Not that it's any sort of puppetmaster thing, but I think overall that's good for a core of alumni people to be working together and improving like that. He may never fly ECM again, his opinion may not have changed, but the thoughtfulness and knowledge that is exchanged here gets propagated to the other alumni nonetheless, maybe even out to other corps. At a minimum, we got some good sig pics out of this (O'Kais donated mine, and Xol I have no idea where you got the bread one but it makes me grin). On top of that, most of the stuff I did was close to useless...I think I tried to drum up ECM support and list pilots that were signing up for ECM, regurgitated a few things I knew about fitting and flying, and opened up some discussion. The WH scanning thing, who knows if it even gets used? I guess my recommendation is if you're interested in something, put in a little effort, try in some small way to make it work better/integrate better with the gang/whatever, and it'll generate discussion and the alumni will be better for it. Make mistakes, embrace them, learn from them, move on (and definitely laugh at yourself). I wouldn't give up and just resign to having a pick-up-group that just wants to KM whore. Even though that's probably the reality, if you're interested in it being a better experience, go 'head and make it one. Alright, /soapbox. Quick edit: definitely keep working on the ECM organization. There is no right answer, but there's always room for improvement. There are pros and cons to everything, whether it's sensor booster or shield extender or fifth jam, how to distribute jams, target calling etc. it's all chaos, but if someone proposes something I'd say give it a fair shake. One of the roams Caldak pulled us aside and asked if ECM wanted a TS channel, at the time I hadn't put enough thought into exactly how to use it so I declined, but be aware that's an option. Brings a whole host of problems but that's what you guys are sorting out. It's likely to fail spectacularly the first time out but pay attention to why and it'll improve with feedback. Plus you have to deal with Caldak who speaks some sort of language based on riddles, as near as I can tell. On the flip side, you GET to deal with Caldak regularly, who is widely regarded as a top notch FC, and is willing to organize these things even with all the headaches. Plus you get Agony support with scouting, skirmishing, tackle, TAMs etc. Alumni roams are in my estimation a great environment to learn, try new roles, work well on a team, and blow stuff up while basically having the hardest parts of EVE "covered" for you. Not that it's some safari and you guys are KM tourists, but I have to imagine alumni are missing out on a lot of frustration due to FC/scout/Skirmish etc being inept. You can come along for pew or try to take it to the next level, it's a great environment to do it in.

[Daedalus]

As always a good roam! Better organised and dicipline then the last one. Have some thoughts thou. At one point where I was assigned to scout a system someone "stole" my recon The recon given was a correct one so I didn't want to give another recon just like it. At first I thought caldak gave the assignment to someone else but as caldak asked my name again I became really confused! Heard caldak ask if that was me giving the recon. I didn't reply say it wasn't me with risk of even more confuse both myself and caldak. Him beeing angry enough as it is Don't seem a good place to pick a grudge in null with 50+ fleet members waiting. Q: what should I have done? continue the recon and ignore the other one? Did some scouting, first recon was really scary. Filled my lungs, pushed the speak button and all of a sudden no oxygen!!! TS also screwed up, heard caldak say something about shooting me lol! First thought was oh no not me, second was, yeah go ahead and try it. Reminder to myself to reinstall TS client! Thanks to all the bosses in fleet! ECM, tackler, TAM

[roigon]

I'd say the amount of killmail whores is probably fairly low in agony roams if any at all really. Sure everyone would like to get kills, but that's just normal. If alumni roams where full of km whores all those drakes on the last fleet would have been floating bricks with no DPS and a sebo's fitted for good measure. Now I wasn't with the fleet, so perhaps they all were ^.^ But I don't particularly think that was the case. What I do think is that the average alumni roam consists of a lot of people like me. That is to say a carebear with teeth. People whom mainly PvE but have a mild taste for blood and participate in the agony roams to fulfil that need. Which brings with it a varying level of skill. Which influences the efficiency of the fleet depending on how much it varies. I think the keeping at optimals "problem" we've had with the trasher roams were a good indication of this. If you sit at optimals on the bubble, and the "pack" decides to be elsewhere, you're dead when the enemy lands. Conversely if you stay with the pack you probably won't be targeted but you won't be doing any damage either. The only winning move is to have enough people at optimals. This means you need enough people with a skill level high enough to understand that they do really need to be at optimals and to be able and execute that. Now the optimals thing in the trasher roams are just an example, I'm sure more examples of this could be found. However, whatever the roam, the only constant will be that skill levels will vary. Now we could all think of neat little ways to compensate for this by creating a idiot proof fleet doctrine, but I'd say that would be very un-agony (pvpu) and probably missing the point by about a mile. It is unfortunate but the only real solution is to keep doing it the "hard" way and keep educating people on what they should be doing. For non-class alumni roams I don't think this is a job for the FC any more, because he isn't FC/instructor at that point. At least not in my perception. Perhaps for those whom see problems with fleet behaviour they should communicate that in fleet chat if there is time or bring it up after the fight. Preferably not angry or belittling, but simply pointing out. For big mistakes this already happens to a certain extend, but perhaps we should be looking at the details as well. Small tips, tricks and pointing out stuff goes a long way in getting everything to happen more efficient.

[Sarek Minyatar]

I'd say the amount of killmail whores is probably fairly low in agony roams if any at all really. Sure everyone would like to get kills, but that's just normal.

Dual-Sebo'd untanked Dramiels anyone?

[Smantis]

As always a good roam!

Better organised and dicipline then the last one.
Have some thoughts thou.
At one point where I was assigned to scout a system someone "stole" my recon
The recon given was a correct one so I didn't want to give another recon just like it.
At first I thought caldak gave the assignment to someone else but as caldak asked my name again I became really confused!
Heard caldak ask if that was me giving the recon.
I didn't reply say it wasn't me with risk of even more confuse both myself and caldak. Him beeing angry enough as it is
Don't seem a good place to pick a grudge in null with 50+ fleet members waiting.

Q: what should I have done? continue the recon and ignore the other one?

Did some scouting, first recon was really scary. Filled my lungs, pushed the speak button and all of a sudden no oxygen!!!
TS also screwed up, heard caldak say something about shooting me lol! First thought was oh no not me, second was, yeah go ahead and try it. Reminder to myself to reinstall TS client!

Thanks to all the bosses in fleet! ECM, tackler, TAM

If I remember you were flying as Facta Non Verba. But a simple rule of thumb, if you are unclear about anything, speak up before we do anything critical like an engagement or going though a gate.

In my mind the correct way to have handled this would have been to say:
"RECON <system name>" and wait for Caldaks response to continue, then say
"Caldak, you assigned me to scout this system, however someone else is providing recon at this location. Would you like me to scout another system or meet up with the fleet."

Also at one point your mic got stuck open and continued to broadcast while Caldak was taking recon and giving instructions so not sure if that is a problem with your mic or TS installation but it was quite a distraction.

Eklest