A PVE's thoughts on why pvp can be so painful
#1
Posted 14 July 2009 - 07:27 AM
#2
Posted 14 July 2009 - 07:47 AM
#3
Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:06 AM
#4
Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:15 AM
#5
Posted 14 July 2009 - 10:36 AM
One of the tricky things about low-sec or 0.0 missions or ratting is being fitted for the almost inevitable PvP while doing PVE.
It's a tricky balance, but it can be done.
True but if the npc's in missions were more true to PVP standards then you wouldn't need a tricky fit you would fit out for pvp as you did pve
All i'm saying is hypothetically if pve missions and the npc's within them were setup to teach people or help people learn the basics of pvp then it would only be a plus to the future pvp
#6
Posted 14 July 2009 - 10:51 AM
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#7
Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:49 AM
In wildness is the preservation of the world,
so seek the wolf in thyself
#8
Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:33 PM
if you go up against 5-10 ships of similar size to your own in pvp youre pretty much dead
pve (missions) frequently requires you to go up against 5-10 BS. So if you want to change pve into something more like pvp there must be changes to everything from bountys to complete rewriting of the missions
sleepers are an attempt for a middleground
Interesting, let me put it this way, by making the pve more difficult I didn't mean that in the way your thinking, hmm how to best put this, atm I think we can all agree or hope we can that Mish's in EVE are boring as hell and once you have a good ship setup you can almost do it with your eyes shut.
It's why after doing the PVP BASIC its going to be really hard for me to go back to mishes:)
Now i'm looking at this from a game mechanic point of view (having run my own mud txt based game for the last 10 years now on its 5th revision moved over to mysql/java hybrid.
This is all hypothetical but I am putting it forward in a post on the eve forum as an idea to discuss
Increase loot table drop and bounty by 50%
Reduce quantity of enemies by 50%
enhance the basic npc with a few more abilities
enable all modules we use in pvp and our load outs to work against npc
And then scale and measure them against those abilities
Keeping what is called the risk v reward curve.
#9
Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:36 PM
#10
Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:09 PM
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#11
Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:39 PM
oh you didn't, you mentioned the WoW word! RUN!!While I definitely agree with you, that would limit the different types of game play EVE provides. Being a sandbox of a game entices a broader base of subscribers which equals more $$ for CCP. Not everyone wants to think when they game....I'd suggest WoW to them.
#12
Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:57 PM
#13
Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:46 PM
I did read somewhere that the sleeper AI is somewhat of an experiment and that plans exist to change/improve the way standard belt/mission rats behave. Can't seem to find the post at this time...
Google gives a couple of dev blogs of interest:
http://www.eveonline...?a=blog&bid=620
Last but not least, we are further improving NPCs by assigning advanced AI capabilities to them. Of course we are not going to assign such improvements all of a sudden to all NPCs, but rather proceed on a careful step-by-step approach which starts with the Apocrypha release. At first, only Sleepers and existing Officer spawns will receive such improved behavior and no other changes will be made to existing PvE interactions. However, with time, we might want to progressively revamp the whole face the EVE Online PVE experience by giving most NPCs clean and fresh roots to rest on.
http://www.eveonline...?a=blog&bid=636
First of all, what I am going to describe is going to worry a lot of people, so DON'T PANIC!
We are not going to change 80% of the NPCs in the game. Your faction-fit Navy XXXX is still going to allow you to run LV 4 missions solo. We haven't changed the NPCs that spawn in belts, nor in any of the classic dungeons, but that may change in future iterations (post-Apocrypha).
http://www.eveonline...?a=blog&bid=645
(no specific mention of future PvE changes, but some info on current Sleeper PvE tactics)
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#14
Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:47 PM
Actually, they do. The only one that is really ineffective is sensor dampening, because rats have effectively infinite locking range. I know for certain that jammers will break their locks and based on what I've seen paints and tracks work as normal - they have signature radii and optimal/falloff/tracking of their weapons which are affected as they would be on a player ship. They don't "use" cap in the same way as a player, but a reservoir and recharge is modeled and they can be successfully Nos'd to keep your own cap up (my ratting setups rely on this.) I have no experience of neuting them; I believe this is supposed to reduce the chance of them repping. They are unaffected by warp jamming, though webs do work. Oh, and defenders will shoot down their missiles just fine.[...] one of the first things you learn is all those e-war skills you need in PVP don't affect npc's. [...]
The thing is, in a PvE fit there are usually better things on which to spend the slots - tank or cap recharge for a mid and weapons for a high - so the EWAR ends up as a suboptimal choice anyway.
Most rat EWAR works in the normal way and can be countered as normal (tracks / tracking computers, tracking enhancers; damps / sensor boosters, signal amplifiers; neuts / cap injectors; paints / better tank for when you get hit more) although Guristas' ECM is supposedly based on a raw chance and not related to the targets's sensor strength as it should be (in my experience there is also a much greater chance they will successfully jam as they aggro.) The NPCs do sort-of cheat in that their EWAR is unchanged from before scripts came in and the speed nerf - eg. rat damping affects both range and res, and their webs are 75% speed reduction.
#15
Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:35 AM