34 replies to this topic

[Bamar]

Hey all. I'm running an Agony destroyers gang this Friday evening US time, and figured what the hell, may as well invite along anyone else who wants to come. Fit your destroyers for a reasonable level of survivability, mid range (10-20km), and lay off the sensor boosters, then get them to Orvolle. A few notes. 1) This is not a class. 2) This is not an alumni roam, it's an Agony roam that's open to our alumni. I'm not going to hold your hand, so please be comfortable with flying in a 0.0 fleet. If you've been thinking about applying to Agony and are curious about what an actual Agony gang is like this is a good chance to see it in a low key situation. I can do a Q&A about Agony, recruitment, and whatnot beforehand if people are interested, but either way, come out, shoot things, and have some fun.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Nice, I have to miss the RvB destroyer gang on Saturday. Clarification: Does 'lay off the sebos' mean 'NO SEBOS ALLOWED' (and if so, can we shoot anybody in fleet who brings a sebo?)

[Bamar]

It means if I notice you have a sensor booster you better have a good reason when I ask you why you fitted it.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Is 'So I can lock fast' a good reason? MWD or AB?

[Bamar]

MWD/AB is up to your discretion. Personally I'd lean towards the AB if you have good range, towards the MWD if you don't. And no "so I can lock fast" isn't a good reason

[Alistone Malikite]

With a bunch of destroyers tracking disrupts, sensor damps, and maybe even some ecm will benefit the survivability of the entire fleet.

But fitting 3x sensor boosters will usually only help you killmail whore.

Don't be a whore; fit EWAR.

In response to the troll...

Is 'So I can lock fast' a good reason?

No.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Sorry, the OP didn't have a sign-up thread vibe to it (more of an invitation type thread) but it just occurred to me that this might have been intended as a sign-up thread and if so I shouldn't have derailed it. Was this intended to be a sign-up thread?

[Vora]

Oh, the loyalty! I assume that the two dessie gangs on that day are no coincidence, and that Mangala is steering our noob cloud towards Syndicate. With dessies we might even get past Rook's Navy Apocs C U

[Sarek Minyatar]

With dessies we might even get past Rook's Navy Apocs

They're Euros, so fear not.

[roigon]

This is quite tempting, very tempting even. But my god, 03:3, that's 04:30am for me. I'm entertaining the idea of waking up early on a saturday, but I doubt 04:30am is humanly possible. What's the position on joining up late? If you happen to only be halfway in syndicate I'm fairly sure I can get there safely in a dessie, so I won't need hand holding to get there or anything, just a destination and I'll phone back in when I get there. Is that permissible?

[Vora]

oops, Sarek's comment let me take a closer look at your start time... our start times are half a day apart. So forget my earlier comment and have fun, west coast hippies

[Smantis]

Will make an attempt to get up.

[Si Raven]

Another Euro that's very tempted. Sounds like a lot of fun so I might see you. Unfortunately I have to be at work 9 hours later

[Nareg Maxence]

Very tempted to resub for this, but 4:30CET.. Please I hope someone fraps this!!!

[nalda]

Wish I had been able to get into a class before this. Would love to see what it is you guys do out there.

[Maudite 9]

This is quite tempting, very tempting even. But my god, 03:3, that's 04:30am for me.

I'm entertaining the idea of waking up early on a saturday, but I doubt 04:30am is humanly possible. What's the position on joining up late? If you happen to only be halfway in syndicate I'm fairly sure I can get there safely in a dessie, so I won't need hand holding to get there or anything, just a destination and I'll phone back in when I get there. Is that permissible?

Shouldn't be a problem.

[remo mctaggert]

Remo McTaggert-Remo McTaggert (MA-D) Most fun i have had in a long time was with Agony Thrasher fleets! i'll be there!

[Leonidas Tokugawa]

Even if I can log on by that time....I will need an opening too K-Space and then the logistics involved in getting there with the right ship...but I will try.

[Bamar]

Glad to see people are interested, just keep in mind, this isn't an alumni roam or training fleet, you're expected to be on the ball, and know what you're doing. The primary purpose is kind of an open-house for potential recruits. You're still welcome to come even if you're not planning on applying right now, but keep in mind the purpose.

[AkJon Ferguson]

It's kinda hard to mess up flying a destroyer. vOv Lock primary, F1. Hope it explodes before you do. If it doesn't, reship. I was gonna bring a corm but the fit I came up with was CPU tight and I was gonna throw a sebo in the 4th mid. Trasher it is! I've got a point (and a MSE II, hope that's considered sufficient tank) on it but can swap out a track if we have enough tackle along already. We going to bring long-range ammo? Will the default response to stealth bombers be kill or run? Do folks overheat their guns in destroyers? So many guns packed so tight seems like that would generally not be done but ?

[Bamar]

Destroyers aren't that simple. With crucible they're essentially large frigates, if you just sit there and wait until you die you're not flying correctly. There are ultimately two classes of destroyer fights post-crucible from what I've seen so far. Against other light ships (namely other destroyer fleets) target-calling and focused fire is of supreme importance. Whoever is best at quickly moving through primaries will win. This sounds simple but actually does require some level of skill and focus. The second type of fight is against larger ships, where you end up flying a lot like a frigate fleet. Keeping your transversal up and dealing with drones tends to keep you alive pretty well. MSE should be sufficient tank. Versatile ammo is always worth bringing, and as always how we deal with different situations will depend on the actual situation. Keep in mind that destroyers have smaller signatures and more hp now, so bombers aren't nearly as effective. People overheat basically any mod on any ship, it depends on the situation. If you really need that bit of dps to finish someone off then sure, but as a general practice you're better off not overheating.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Thanks for the answers.

There are ultimately two classes of destroyer fights post-crucible from what I've seen so far. Against other light ships (namely other destroyer fleets) target-calling and focused fire is of supreme importance. Whoever is best at quickly moving through primaries will win.

I think that when glass cannons square off getting your damage on SOMETHING should be your first priority. Let's say we have a 20v20 in destroyers. Group A calls primaries. Group B each person is given an opposite number in the opposing fleet to primary and destroy. I bet you Group B gets 10 kills long before Group A does.

Keep in mind that destroyers have smaller signatures and more hp now, so bombers aren't nearly as effective.

K, I'll default to aggress bombers on sight (absent orders to the contrary) then. (Here's where fast locks are key but we'll work with what we have.)

People overheat basically any mod on any ship, it depends on the situation. If you really need that bit of dps to finish someone off then sure, but as a general practice you're better off not overheating.

Would you overheat the whole rack though? And if not, is it worth splitting it up into 2 different groups? It's too bad you can't have separate 'firing' groups and 'overheat' groups.

Edit: Actually the separate firing and overheat groups is a dumb idea as it obviously wouldn't work for those guns where overheating shortens the cycle time.

[Bamar]

There are ultimately two classes of destroyer fights post-crucible from what I've seen so far. Against other light ships (namely other destroyer fleets) target-calling and focused fire is of supreme importance. Whoever is best at quickly moving through primaries will win.

I think that when glass cannons square off getting your damage on SOMETHING should be your first priority. Let's say we have a 20v20 in destroyers. Group A calls primaries. Group B each person is given an opposite number in the opposing fleet to primary and destroy. I bet you Group B gets 10 kills long before Group A does.

You might think so, but you'd be wrong. Last week we had two distinct fights against other destroyer gangs (both outnumbered us and had more firepower than us) and yet beat both handily because we focused fire and were disciplined while they spread around their DPS. Yes targets die quickly, but that's why you have secondaries and tertiaries. Maybe the entire gang doesn't get on each individual target, but at any one point in time all your dps is focused on a single target. At no point in either circumstance should people be idle, but with focused fire you'll be taking down targets faster.

If you get to a point where calling primaries is no longer feasible (this point is larger than 20v20) then the solution is to have everyone sort by name and go down the list, not to spread dps. Spread DPS is basically never a good idea, unless you significantly outnumber an enemy gang and just want to grab as many of them as possible.

[roigon]

Would you overheat the whole rack though? And if not, is it worth splitting it up into 2 different groups? It's too bad you can't have separate 'firing' groups and 'overheat' groups.

From the overheating topic in ship fittings I'd think it would be worth separating your guns into two groups. So you don't have to overheat your entire rack. whether you press F1 or F1&F2 isn't that big of a difference, and it also gives you the ability to dis-engage your first group when the target is in low hull and ready to pop, or when you want to put a group of guns on a drone while still hitting the primary.

But that's just my opinion.

[Bamar]

Guns should be in one group, any tiny incremental difference you get in overheating performance is not worth the downsides of having multiple groups.