29 replies to this topic

[Marvin]

From the required ships on the advanced class.

Class day, T1 cruisers - T1 fit only for your own practical.
Going 11 v 11 and we do the AAR from each fight. Winners go against the Agony team

Roam Day:
Section 1 - Old Style
All style of EWAR - Jams, Tracks, Damps.

Drakes, Hurricanes, other BC's, T2 Heavy Assaults, Logistics - if numbers are good. Ewar - All sorts welcome.
Tackle - All sorts.
Co-Ops.

Section 2:
New:
All T3 BC's
All Tackle - light, heavy, bubble power.
Logistics - must have numbers - fast.
Co-Ops - Please.

Again Scan for WH's so we got options for running around to the heavy camped area's.
All sorts of Intel is welcome.

The class day is straight forward, bring a T1 cruiser T1 fit

The roam part is where I'm unsure.

Will the roam be split into 2 sections or will it be a 1 or the other section?
Also will we have a theme for the roam(section 1) i.e. shield nano gang, AHACs...

Which logistics will be preferred?

Edit: Added a poll for the logistics

[Caldak]

2 sections as the style of use is different. Those who don't want to fly a T3 BC in the 2nd half will hopefully join on the tackle/Suppourt/Ewar to make a effective fleet, locking a system down or what ever we dream up. As far as theme's go, let's do a vote and see what our skills can be effective with.

[Othran]

I won't be in a tier 3 BC, these particular glass cannons require decent large gun skills and Othran's skills in those areas are still almost non-existant after 3 years I'll be doing some sort of support role for your BFGs Edit - if we're doing some sort of vote on this then all I'd say is its easier to get 2-3 scimis running than Guardians so shield-based may make more sense. Apart from that I don't have any preference.

[Marvin]

If I know which are all options for the first section then I can make a thread around it. I'm aware of armour brawlers, shield nano and potentially shield brawlers (less common), my perception is that armour 'nano' can be an option but due to plates tends to not be used much (if at all) as they are slower and less agile than shield nanos. Similarly shield suffer from a lack of buffer in the brawler department but it's not that detrimental. i.e. give me what to put as options / how and I can change the initial post for it.

[Othran]

If I know which are all options for the first section then I can make a thread around it. I'm aware of armour brawlers, shield nano and potentially shield brawlers (less common), my perception is that armour 'nano' can be an option but due to plates tends to not be used much (if at all) as they are slower and less agile than shield nanos. Similarly shield suffer from a lack of buffer in the brawler department but it's not that detrimental.

i.e. give me what to put as options / how and I can change the initial post for it.

Logistics are normally the key. Easier to find a couple of Scimitar pilots than 2-3 Guardian pilots IME.

[Marvin]

Logistics are normally the key. Easier to find a couple of Scimitar pilots than 2-3 Guardian pilots IME.

I suspect that with the recent changes the Oneiros can actually be more viable esp for a brawler oriented fleet. That said I can do lvl 4 Guardian / Basilisk or on another toon lvl 5 Oneiros / Scimi. The Scimi was a by-product of other training and I need to just check if I'll be happy with that toon's overall shield skills. I bought the toon a bit ago but it's shield skills were suboptimal and it was more armour focussed. Though I could sell that toon sometime as I got a better toon later for what I wanted to train said first bought toon into .

Logistics ships might be a slight issue though as I'm recovering from some other expensive 'investments' PvP Basi and Incursion Oneiros I do have ready (should be easily able to refit to PvP)

Edit: added a poll to the thread for logistics ships available

[Aluchem]

Drakes are pretty common in these classes. So I would say shield, will confirm with Caldak.

[Prudance]

Not to mention the new T3 BCs are mostly shield tanked (as far as Ive seen)

[roigon]

I'd love to fly armor, but the last time I was in any kind of fleet that flew armor tanked was at least a year ago. In an offensive roaming environment it simply seems like shield has all the advantages that armor does not; Regeneration, more dps, faster, more agile. Armor seems to only offer more tank and midslots for the moment. I've actually yet to hear of any other pvp armor fleet composition beyond zealots or battleships and up.

[Vjorn]

Put my vote in as a Basi/Guardian pilot, Logi 5. Unfortunately, Minm Cruiser 5 won't complete 'til a week after the class dates. With that said however, I have NEVER flown logi before (heck I've never received reps before, either ). I am certainly willing to give this a go, but would prolly benefit from a more experienced logi pilot giving me some tips As far as BC's go, VJ flies Drakes, and atm...ummmm Draeks, altho I can also fly a decent BB. Tier 3 BC's, I'm in same boat as Othran hehehe.

[Vora]

I still have a Scimitar in Rens (and Logi V), so if shield logis are needed my two BB will rust in Stacmon. Of course, being space-poor means I cannot replace it during the roam if it pops early.

[Othran]

Othran is still useless in a logi (but I know an alt who isn't ), anyway Caldak knows roughly what I have up Stacmon way so can get sorted on the night if necessary. I'm hoping some of you guys from dzu's recent covops class are going to try scouting - would be nice to see how you've improved (or not ) When we're talking about logis etc I'm talking about the whole roam - eg you may not take one on first section but might on the second section as the tier 3 BCs are a little fragile. They look fairly fragile to me and I fly nanocanes usually (which aren't exactly "robust" in BC terms) so they must look absolutely horrific to Drake pilots See what numbers are like and so on.

[Totshiessemann]

First, you should add a poll response of "none" so that you can track how many have considered the question but can't/won't bring a logi. And second, I share the OP’s confusion but I think this is what was meant about the ships: Class ships: 2x Disposable T1 fit T1 cruisers Roam Composition: Section 1: t3 BC‘s (notice the lowercase “t” for “tier”) any type Section 2: Old style roam fleet; Drake, Hurricane, other BC’s, HAC’s with assorted E-war Section 3: Tackle; Light, Heavy, Bubble Power Section 4: Dedicated E-war Section 5: Logistics Section 6: Cov-ops For the t3 BC’s the first thing we need to know is how they are intended to be used. It is true to make a t3’s sing that you need T2 large weapons for the T2 ammo. If the use is as a hyper wolfpack spreading destruction at 150-250k (poor Naga could hit to 350k if there wasn’t a 250k targeting limit) then that is much easier with T2 weapons. The upside of this is that your EHP <10K, range is your tank and logistics would be pointless since there is not enough buffer to be useful. If, on the other hand, the intent is to use them as a Worgpack, hitting like the wolfpack around 75K but with the big guns things change. That can be done with T1 large weapons and you have enough room for a cruiser tank (20-30K EHP) and a use for logistics. The Oracle and Talos can be readily armor tanked and the Tornado, Naga and Talos can be readily shield tanked. You could theoretically have different logistics for different sections but this would be unnecessarily complicated and limit flexibility. So maybe it should say: Roam Composition-Shield Fleet Section 1: any t3 BC fit to engage at 150km+ Section 2: Old style BC/HAC shield fit, range 30km and under Section 3: Shield Tackle; Light, Heavy, Bubble Power Section 4: Dedicated E-war Section 5: Shield Logistics Section 6: Cov-ops Or something else completely, but as long as we know the plan far enough in advance we can adjust accordingly. Some of us as too poor to fill a hangar with ships to cover any possibility. I personally hope for a Worgpack version so I can fly a t3 BC. But if not it is not a problem, I will just buy and fit a couple other ships that are appropriate for the fleet.

[Aluchem]

Welcome to the world of Caldak interpretation I will chase him down and get him to confirm what he wants.

[Caldak]

Not hard. First roam we do is old style Battlecruisers. The second section will be using the new t3 ships in it. Reason I haven't said distance to engage is that we need as a class to come up with the best effective use we want to try. Doesn't matter what you do long or short you need tackle for it to work. t3 tank is the fleet it flys with. All for class day.

[AkJon Ferguson]

I'd like to bring a tier 2 battlecruiser for the whole thing (and not for lack of skills.) It seems to me you (in the 2nd half) would get slaughtered by a frigate/assault ship/destroyer/hac gang if you ever got caught by one. You will also be EXTREMELY vulnerable to stealth bomber gangs, particularly with the new mechanic. If y'all do another flybys class and have a roam (or just a gatecamp) with it this time, tier 3's would be the logical choice for ship-type imo. Also, I completely concur with Totshiessemann's post.

[Caldak]

See now people are thinking. Add Smily face here

[AkJon Ferguson]

Food for thought. Might not be the best day to take the tier 3's for a test drive.

[roigon]

Food for thought. Might not be the best day to take the tier 3's for a test drive.

Well that fully depends. Firstly they will probably be roaming GW/curse/catch. But then again, syndicate is not that far either.

However, what you have then is circa 70-100 pilots, majority in firetails, most of whom have never flown one, and a fleet that can be 'impatient' and quite generally doesn't really care if they win or lose, just as long as it was glorious.

To me that seems like excellent conditions to create a situation in which a approximately a 100 squishy targets find themselves at range to a tier3 BC fleet that can then take pop-shots at those who fail to GTFO. Because of the large fleet, that could easily take half a minute if not longer from the first person landing to the last person leaving.

Granted, saturday SNIGG thought approximately the same thing and found that a fleet of 100 dessies landed on 0 of their t3 BC sniping location; But they in some inexplicable way thought they could just sit there for 20minutes without someone providing a warp-in just because they had spies in comms. Which is silly, since if you know you have spies in your normal comms, you obviously create a back-channel to discuss intel sensitive stuff with a small group of trusted people. Not that I know that for certain, but that just seems logical to me.

[Caldak]

Food for thought. Might not be the best day to take the tier 3's for a test drive.

More the reason to do it
Not sure if they would come down with incursion running.

[Othran]

There's an incursion in GW as well as Syndicate - admittedly you'd have to be bloody stupid to go to GW with 50+ even without an incursion but who can tell... Curse looks quite lively, as does Catch so were I Mangala I'd be looking there first. Looks like some nice gangs running in that area at the moment. Does it matter anyway?

[roigon]

Class day, T1 cruisers - T1 fit only for your own practical.

Quick question, when you say 'T1 fit'. Does that mean 'no DC2, no T2 guns, no T2 anything' or just 'fit cheap because you are going to lose it'?

[Vora]

There's an incursion in GW as well as Syndicate - admittedly you'd have to be bloody stupid to go to GW with 50+ even without an incursion but who can tell...

Uhmm, we had actually crossed the Incursion area in GW with our Ganked dessie fleet. No problem at all. The Sansha gate camps were way too slow to lock up Thrashers, so no problem with Firetails I guess.
BTW: GW was pretty empty, the first engagements were in Etherium Reach.



PS: After CCPs bomber support (including one Agony bomber) had shredded our fleet I could tranfer the Scimi to Stacmon. So for the roam I can now offer Scimi, BB, Ares

[Othran]

There's an incursion in GW as well as Syndicate - admittedly you'd have to be bloody stupid to go to GW with 50+ even without an incursion but who can tell...

BTW: GW was pretty empty, the first engagements were in Etherium Reach.

That's what I meant, you got bugger all chance of finding anything to fight in GW with 50+ even if there wasn't an incursion.

[Vora]

There's an incursion in GW as well as Syndicate - admittedly you'd have to be bloody stupid to go to GW with 50+ even without an incursion but who can tell...

BTW: GW was pretty empty, the first engagements were in Etherium Reach.

That's what I meant, you got bugger all chance of finding anything to fight in GW with 50+ even if there wasn't an incursion.

Ah, ok, I got that wrong then.
I remember when Agony roams started in Teonusude years ago we had some nice engagements with COW in GW (including a DD)