7 replies to this topic

[Kalar Freno]

So I had a couple of questions as I read through the WOLFPACKS material. I realise I'll get chance to ask them in class, but I thought if I put them here, then others who might also have similar questions can see the answers more easily. I also thought it might help the next time the class material is revised. This does rely on a nice knowledgeable person answering them, however! But we seem to have plenty of those here, so hopefully I won't cost too much time. If any other students have questions, feel free to add them to the thread also! 1. Bookmarks and server load The material implies that having a large number of bookmarks in your P&P window can potentially cause lag upon entering new systems. It refers to managing these bookmarks, and in the same section talks about organising them into folders. Am I right in thinking that putting bms in folders doesn't do anything to address server lag, and that by "managing bookmarks" it means that you need to pull bms that aren't currently being used (e.g. from another region) and leave them in your (corp or personal) hangar? Is there any guidance as to how many bms is "too many"? (The material mentions tens of thousands - that seems like an awful lot. Should we not worry about this until we reach that point?) 2. Wolfpacks concept The material seems to define a "wolfpack" as a mixed fleet of frigs/dessies, but I think for the class we'll all be in destroyers (I certainly haven't brought any frigs). Has this changed since the material was written? Also, after reading the section on Wolfpack Tactics twice, I still feel unclear about what makes a wolfpack special or different to a normal fleet. I can kind of see how a mixed fleet would work (frigs bring the EWAR, destroyers provide the dps), but a fleet full of destroyers doesn't seem very wolfpackish. (For me this contrasts strongly with the Hydra fleet we learnt about in BASIC, which was a real "Aha!" moment - it's a very elegant fleet doctrine which was awesome to see in practice, and the metaphor works really well). I appreciate that this may become clearer in the class, I'm just providing feedback on the material as it is. Note that it's not the tactics outlined which are unclear (again mini-warps are something I was never exposed to until I started Agony classes, and they're brilliant!), just the "wolfpacks concept" if you like. 3. Session timer changes I was listening to one of the Agony public seminars on FCing (I think), and they were discussing gang bonuses. I thought they might have said that changing bonuses can also cause a session timer, but it doesn't seem to be on the list in "Intermediate PVP Mechanics". Does it cause a session timer? 4. Gate invulnerability Is gate invulnerability the same as the cloak you get when you jump through the gate? I mean, does it last the full minute of your cloak (if you hold it), or does it only last the same period as the session timer (30 secs). I'm also assuming this is true invulnerability (unlike regular cloaks), so you are unaffected by bombs, smartbombs, etc. Could someone confirm this? Can your gate cloak be disrupted by objects moving close to you, in the same way as a regular cloak can? The material also says that you will lose your undock invulnerability if you activate modules, initiate warp, or double click to move anywhere in space. I'm assuming that this list isn't complete, and aligning or reapproaching the station (for example) would also break your undocking invulnerability. It might be nice to clarify this. 5. Aggression timer I believe that using logistic modules (shield/energy transfer arrays, remote repair) doesn't trigger an aggression timer. Is the same true of logistic drones? 6 Log-off timer and warping Is the warp when you log off instantaneous, or does it require moving to 75% of full speed like normal warping? If it is like normal, is it possible for someone to aggress you after you've logged off but before your ship has made it into warp and stop you warping or destroy your ship? Does warping to a point 1m km away occur even if you log off in a POS (i.e. if I log off in a POS with 10 mins left on my aggression timer, will my ship sit in space outside the POS for 10 mins?) 7 Gang bonuses The introduction to this article mentions "mind links" but they are never mentioned again in the main text. The introduction also implies that having any of the leadership skills gives no benefit to solo pilots. If I have Leadership V, Armored Warfare V, Information Warfare V, Siege Warfare V, and Skirmish Warfare V (the last two are incorrectly named in the Command Structure section, btw), what precisely do I need to do in order to get the bonuses? Will just inviting a friend to fleet suffice? Or does my friend need to be in the same system as I am? I realise that if I have Leadership II say, I can only pass bonuses to 4 squad members. However, if the Wing Commander above me has all the skills above at V, am I right in thinking that my squad members get their targeting speed bonuses from the Wing Commander, rather than my lower bonus? Finally, the article (admittedly referencing EVEwiki) implies that the individual with Fleet Command must also be the designated fleet booster, but I think that currently an individual who is not in a command postion can be designated in this role. Is this correct? In order to pass on bonuses, must squad/wing commanders be present in the same system as the fleet, or do the bonuses flow through even when they are not present? Sorry, this ended up being longer than I anticipated. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with the answers!

[Sarek Minyatar]

I realise that if I have Leadership II say, I can only pass bonuses to 4 squad members. However, if the Wing Commander above me has all the skills above at V, am I right in thinking that my squad members get their targeting speed bonuses from the Wing Commander, rather than my lower bonus?

Holy batman wall of text
Good questions though.

Don't have time for all of these so I'll start with one. To pass on skills in this configuration your squad cannot have more than 4 members. If you have 5, you will not pass on any bonuses unless you skill up Leadership 3. If you are able to pass on bonuses though, you are correct in that you will get the best bonus that is available, so in this case from your Wing Commander (or rather the designated Wing Booster, which doesn't need to be the same character).

A Mindlink is a slot 10 implant that boosts leadership bonuses further and is usually fitted by Command Ship pilots. There is one for earch group of bonuses, e.g. a Skirmish Warfare Mindlink and so on.

[Othran]

1. BMs dont work the way the wiki implies. Makes no difference how you sort them as the folders are client side and the BMs are server side; 2. Thrashers are alpha damage ships which makes the tactics a bit different; 3. Joining or leaving a fleet will cause a session change; 4. Nothing can decloak your gate cloak. You are invulnerable until you move; 5. Yes; 6. Logoffski is changing this winter but the emergency warp is not instant. Anything larger than a T1 frigate is likely to be pointed before it warps even if you logoff with gate cloak. The pod will get away but will stay in space for 15 minutes; 7. You need to be in space and in the same system as the booster for bonuses to work. Bonuses cascade down if that makes sense but best to ask on class as its easier to explain when you can see the fleet structure. HTH.

[John McGuirk]

I am nice and a person, but not particularly knowledgable. I will TRY, however, to answer what I think I know. I caution you that I'm learning this stuff too, and would get confirmation on my points. Part of the reason I'm posting without being 100% sure is I want to prove out my understanding as well. 3. Session change timer is triggered when someone is moved in a fleet (technically that's the event that causes a bonus change, and this also triggers a session change timer). One of the main take-aways in my opinion is the ramifications of letting people move themselves in future fleets you lead. Unless everyone understands the ramifications of this, someone may move themselves, thus triggering their SCT making them unable to jump. Follow-on question: is it only the MOVED member who gets a SCT? 4. Gate cloak = gate invuln, lasts 60 seconds unless you move (including hitting align or warp). You are invulnerable to everything, including smartbombs and bombs. Agony FCs use this often, having people hold cloak as bombs blow up uselessly around us students. Those that panic and move sometimes die. Trying to activate anything or target anyone just fails unless you move, I believe (someone confirm this?). If this is true, a secondary point is if you jump into a fight and WANT to engage, start moving somewhere so you can target and use your modules, else you'll sit there invulnerable but not having any impact on the fight for the duration of your invulnerability. I am 98% sure you cannot be decloaked from this. You are effectively NOT THERE other than showing up in local while your gate cloak lasts unless you cancel it by moving. The only actions I know of that you can do while RETAINING your undock invulnerability are a) nothing or b ) stopping your ship via CTL-SPACE (which, if you're doing it, you're doing it for a reason and you should know that you should be spamming this as soon as you have hit "undock," because it works during the black screen, which stops you closer to the station than if you wait until you see yourself in space). I am 50% sure that clicking "Set Speed to Zero" triangle on your speedometer is different and you lose your invulnerability. Note my list is not exhaustive. I've not tried jetting a can or other strange things to see if I lose invuln. Hope these a) are right and b ) help.

[Sarek Minyatar]

2. Students will mostly be in trashers, but there'll be plenty of frigs around from Agony support and some of the alumni. Thrashers will also field ewar, so the Hydra-concept still applies. And as someone said, Arty-thrasher are an alpha fleet, which you will soon learn is something awesome and one of the most fun fleet concepts in EVE

[Sarek Minyatar]

4. Nothing can decloak your gate cloak. You are invulnerable until you move;

are you sure about that? I swear I once got decloaked by an unlucky spawn when I appeared right next to a sensor-boosted Arty-Cane who alpha'd me while I was still under the impression that I'm cloaked and was considering my options.

[John McGuirk]

4. Nothing can decloak your gate cloak. You are invulnerable until you move;

are you sure about that?

Not even close to sure. When I get home I'll try this with two accounts, so I can see where to fly the decloaker.

[Othran]

4. Nothing can decloak your gate cloak. You are invulnerable until you move;

are you sure about that? I swear I once got decloaked by an unlucky spawn when I appeared right next to a sensor-boosted Arty-Cane who alpha'd me while I was still under the impression that I'm cloaked and was considering my options.

Totally sure Sarek. I have tested this umpteen times. There was an exploit a year or so ago which might be what happened to you, it affected undocking invuln too.