57 replies to this topic

[Caldak]

Right time for feed back, that's the Good and the Bad. Nice class so far, 1 hr to set up ect.. then 4 for the class. A few kills to wet your feet. Would of liked to see a few different X's up for answers. Material covered was it good enough for those that didn't understand ? I know it can be a bit hard to say I don't understand in front of others. It is basics so the depth of coverage will be different from say Wolfpacks or another. Roam: Good run, nice class in a whole. Pirates, they were fun. Rotte K missed having the go against them. Altho they did let us have a go against that carrier. Self destruct in Triage mode, boo CCP fix it. Down to Delve were we ended up with nothing at all. Pity Pity. See ya tomorrow.

[Kalar Freno]

I thought the first day was really good (I'll give feedback on the second tomorrow!) I felt you struck a good balance between depth and covering a wide variety of topics. I think it might have been nice to do a bit more on the practical side, and less of the "theory" (though I know tomorrow will be very "practical"!). Both the section on tac/off-grid bookmarks and the bit on spiraling seemed a bit rushed, and it might have been worth spending another 10-15 mins to let everyone have another go at those bits. I really appreciated your willingness to take us into a fight at the end, and it was an awesome way to finish a fun class. It really hit home to me though that knowing this stuff and doing it in combat are two different things. I should have known as a griffin I was going to get primaried, and in spite of the fact that we'd just 30 mins previously learnt about spiraling, when that second cane showed up and was out of range, I clicked approach. You can guess what happened next... In spite of all the stuff we learnt in day one (all of which was really useful), the one thing you said that I think will stay with me from this class is "The only way to get good at PvP is to PvP"

[Tiercel]

Top quality course and very informative. It has given me some excellent techniques to build into my own pvp style for the corp. Looking forward to the second part.

[Malthus]

Overall very well done class. Agree with Kalar on the practical stuff- it would have been nice to get more of a chance to practice spiraling and tac bookmark creation. Understandable that it was done that way with a 50 person class though. I definitely learned a lot and am looking forward to the roam later today! A section on how to stay in large moving fights effectively would have been helpful- after the first cane went down I found myself 80km from the fight and despite warping to the sun and back to Caldak several times, I was unable to get close until the end. I loved the fight at the end- got on my first two killmails! -Malthus

[Irimar]

I had a great time and learned a lot. Thanks to Caldak and all the other Agony members who helped him out. Unfortunately, I had to sign off early and didn't get the password to post my deathmails. Could someone PM it to me?

[Othran]

Roam was fun. I was pleased we gave up on Syndicate nice and quickly, was looking at it prior to class and thinking "oh shit, this is going to be frustrating". Flashy reds were fun, Othran and Kaeda had actually been planning to go annoy these lads in a slightly different area of Placid. Might give them a prod today prior to class since we didn't yesterday. Grid-fu was classic. I've seen that setup a few times with vertical undock stations - well done to ROXGhengis for spotting it first, that was fast. Earlier start helps I think. We seemed to still have a good number of people with the fleet when we came back to Stacmon and that was after about 7 hours actual roaming. Bring on the night.... Edit - looking at flashy fits. Why didn't that flashy red in the scorp fit some ecm bursts rather than dual tanking it? He came to the gate solo, would have done him more good and he'd have laster longer. Four stabs on the Rokh is pretty funny too given where we were fighting.

[Kaeda Maxwell]

I had great fun on the roam besides not being quite sober on the later half

One thing though I realize Agony lives in null and is thus blissfully unaware of gate guns... That carrier on the gate in Covryn that you made an interceptor burn towards to get point was 30 km of the right gate gun which was warp-able ;-)

Edit - looking at flashy fits. Why didn't that flashy red in the scorp fit some ecm bursts rather than dual tanking it? He came to the gate solo, would have done him more good and he'd have laster longer. Four stabs on the Rokh is pretty funny too given where we were fighting.

You can only fit 1 ECM Burst I believe so that's why prolly :-)

[sundarbolt]

I thought the class was about perfect. There was alot in there that I'd had to learn the hard way living in Low and Null, I so wish I'd done this class before then. It served as a great refresher, focussed my mind on some aspects I hadn't prioritised before (Gate discipline, No J-word on comms (I did actually go through a gate in error when the word was mentioned )) Brought up some new considerations too; Hydra fleet doctrine is pure win The angular velocity (offensively and defensivly an awesome snippit of knowledge to have in hand over an opponent) and approach angles. The catapult maneuver (the amount of times this could have saved a hull!). Really need to know specific ships more, but every Roam adds to this, the coloured backgrounds I actually hadnt realised before (never mind for ECM) The coverage was good, fairly even. I'm pretty sure some of the students wont have fully grasped Safes and Tacs, but need to speak up more in class. Perhaps alittle more practise with Spiralling would be usefull, but we have the knowledge now to go perfect this. The Roam: Just brilliant. I loved the fluidity of it (sure it cought me out a couple of times), I loved the fast thinking and changes of plan, not hanging around in one places too long were great calls. Those BS fits we took down were epic, anyone who hasnt checked the killboards go do so! What I was really impressed with though, were the disciplined recon and skirmishing of the Agony pilots (in addition to Caldak's FCing ofcourse), and the various methods you used to fight enemies on your terms. The bubble setups etc when trying to coax opposing forces to commit. Some of that was genius, a refreshing approach compared to the usual blobbing. Negatives: Same people with all the answers (maybe something to incentivise getting answers right like your quiz, but more regularly on a smaller scale?), or pick people at random and ask them the questions directly? I think some will have left without having fully grasped some concepts, but perhaps felt as we were pushing through the latter half pretty quickly they didn't want to hold things up. (To that end, if anyone wants to talk Tacs, Spiralling, do a bit of practical, I'd be happy to help). Struggling to think of more negatives :-/ Anyway, I'm already looking forward to doing the class and roam again in different ships, a griffin to begin with, then some T2 stuff, perhaps help with the skirmishing if allowed. Thanks to Caldak and the Agony lads, I was very impressed.

[Strazdas]

Had a lot of fun. too bad i had to quit the roam early on. really good class

[Penelope Star]

I've been wanting to do an Agony class for ages, and can now see why they're in such demand. Initially thought the Theory session was possibly a bit too vast for one sitting, but it seemed to have (mostly) sunk in and we have those notes to go back and refresh which is especially good. Agreed some quick practice of concepts would have been nice, but can always go away and try it on corp mates too The roam was awesome! You definitely need to pay attention constantly, because they move fast and furious. I stuck with this for 8 hours and could have gone on longer. Thanks Caldak you were a brilliant fc and instructor; commands clear and easy to follow. Also thanks to all the Agony scouts who found us those juicy kills and fights. The short and sweet: an intense class, needs full concentration but would recommend to anyone keen to learn all those necessary pvp basics.

[Xolanie]

The Training:
Very in-depth, covered lots in a short space of time, i found the creating bookmark's and using the direction scanner sections very useful, i also liked the information about game mechanics like the server tick, i never realized how vulnerable so called safe spots are between celestial objects (even on the roam when we warped to random planets and created bookmarks i ended up in the same spot in space with 3 others from the fleet).

All the info about the various PvP mods was also very informative and the chance to test them out at the end of the night gave me a better understanding of a good ship setup.

My only criticisms are i found it quite hard going understanding different types of bookmarks (still not clear to me), the grid reference (still no clue on that one) and the spiral approach to increase rads/sec (i understand that flying directly at something is a bad idea but working out what the number should be in comparison the gun types is still a complete mystery)

The Roam:
Great fun with great leadership, Caldak's knowledge of what was going on all the time was inspiring, the intell from the scouts (much respect to the scouts, i see how important a roll they play giving eyes to the main fleet) with positions/systems/direction targets going ect was confusing at times to me so all credit to Caldak for taking in all the info and directing the fleet as required.

I found understanding what i was supposed to be doing and where we were going hard at first (managed to loose the fleet a few times) but i started to get the hang of it towards the end (especially when i managed to figure out how to remove fleet members from the overview).

The part when we left the station with the pirates setting off smart bombs was an eye opener but i had a huge smile on my face when we kicked there ass - would have loved to hear the conversations going on over their comms

So glad i decided to go with artillery over auto-cannons as well with all the smart-bombing battleships we came up against

Conclusion:
I now have a greater understanding of fleet PvP (and PvP in general) but i now know i need alot of practice and put in the extra work with bookmarks ect to fight smarter.

I'll need to get on a few more basic courses I think to get a full understanding of whats going on and how to approach each situation,

Overall, great fun, alot more than i expected it to be 20mill well spent

I'd like to thank everyone from Agony aswell as the Ilumni that turned up to give the students a better experience,

Xol

[Othran]

I had great fun on the roam besides not being quite sober on the later half

One thing though I realize Agony lives in null and is thus blissfully unaware of gate guns... That carrier on the gate in Covryn that you made an interceptor burn towards to get point was 30 km of the right gate gun which was warp-able ;-)

Edit - looking at flashy fits. Why didn't that flashy red in the scorp fit some ecm bursts rather than dual tanking it? He came to the gate solo, would have done him more good and he'd have laster longer. Four stabs on the Rokh is pretty funny too given where we were fighting.

You can only fit 1 ECM Burst I believe so that's why prolly :-)

No you can only activate one at a time. You can still stagger them - or you certainly used to be able to. Scorpion at zero ECM bursting with logis repping him and people damping down their DPS ships is epically funny. Wouldn't have worked that well for him but unless his mates left him to die I can't see the point of his fit.

Edit and yes Kaeda is spot on about the guns - you taught me that trick Caldak Also I'm just waiting for someone to aggress forgetting they're in low-sec. It spices things up no end but I have a vague worry that if someone does go GCC then they will be blissfully unaware of the timers involved (all 4 of them). I think you should keep going into low-sec like this with the class though because most of them are more likely to be fighting in low-sec first. I thought it was great fun, hopefully most of the flashy reds in Covryn thought the same. Round 2 coming up....

[Alistone Malikite]

I had great fun on the roam besides not being quite sober on the later half

One thing though I realize Agony lives in null and is thus blissfully unaware of gate guns... That carrier on the gate in Covryn that you made an interceptor burn towards to get point was 30 km of the right gate gun which was warp-able ;-)

Edit - looking at flashy fits. Why didn't that flashy red in the scorp fit some ecm bursts rather than dual tanking it? He came to the gate solo, would have done him more good and he'd have laster longer. Four stabs on the Rokh is pretty funny too given where we were fighting.

You can only fit 1 ECM Burst I believe so that's why prolly :-)

No you can only activate one at a time. You can still stagger them - or you certainly used to be able to. Scorpion at zero ECM bursting with logis repping him and people damping down their DPS ships is epically funny. Wouldn't have worked that well for him but unless his mates left him to die I can't see the point of his fit.

Edit and yes Kaeda is spot on about the guns - you taught me that trick Caldak Also I'm just waiting for someone to aggress forgetting they're in low-sec. It spices things up no end but I have a vague worry that if someone does go GCC then they will be blissfully unaware of the timers involved (all 4 of them). I think you should keep going into low-sec like this with the class though because most of them are more likely to be fighting in low-sec first. I thought it was great fun, hopefully most of the flashy reds in Covryn thought the same. Round 2 coming up....

It's like an Afterburner/MWD. You can fit more than 1, but you can only use 1 at a time. I tested this just now and when I try to use a 2nd ECM burst on my scorpion any time during the cycle of the first one I get this message:

13:53:04 Notify The 'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I cannot be activated as it requires access to resources and/or skills which 1 modules of the same purpose are already using up.

[Othran]

Hmm that doesn't make a lot of sense really. The module has an instant effect and a reactivation delay. Its not like the effect lasts for 20 secs like a jam or an AB cycle. Sounds broken? Edit - a bit like the server right now.

[Kaeda Maxwell]

the grid reference (still no clue on that one)

Warning written by the goons has some foul language ;-) But reading this will make you know more about grids then 90% of EVE :-)

http://go-dl.eve-fil...idfumanual2.pdf

[Othran]

the grid reference (still no clue on that one)

Warning written by the goons has some foul language ;-) But reading this will make you know more about grids then 90% of EVE :-)

http://go-dl.eve-fil...idfumanual2.pdf

Yeah I have seen this before on vertical undock stations - stretch the grid towards the direction where you can't warp in from a celestial and away from the direction where you can. This results in one side of the station maybe having 50km of the grid and the other side having maybe 700-800km. It works very well because the undock is vertical and not horizontal, so you won't have as many issues with insta-undocks. ROX spotted it very fast.

[Alistone Malikite]

Hmm that doesn't make a lot of sense really. The module has an instant effect and a reactivation delay. Its not like the effect lasts for 20 secs like a jam or an AB cycle.

Sounds broken? Edit - a bit like the server right now.

There may be some confusion due to the term "reactivation delay". For the purpose of an ECM burst module just think of "reactivation delay" as the "cycle time / module duration". Not all CCP descriptions are 100% accurate. Its usually better to experiment on rely on direct observations rather than to rely on CCPs module desciption.

[Deris Vaal]

I've been wanting to do the course for a long time. I enjoyed it immensely. Many thanks to Caldak, Agony, Alumi and the other students for making it an event well worth waiting for. Now I'm looking forward to Wolf packs.... ahh... Agony addiction Like some metal dude once said, "I'll be back!"

[Othran]

Hmm that doesn't make a lot of sense really. The module has an instant effect and a reactivation delay. Its not like the effect lasts for 20 secs like a jam or an AB cycle.

Sounds broken? Edit - a bit like the server right now.

There may be some confusion due to the term "reactivation delay". For the purpose of an ECM burst module just think of "reactivation delay" as the "cycle time / module duration". Not all CCP descriptions are 100% accurate. Its usually better to experiment on rely on direct observations rather than to rely on CCPs module desciption.

Indeed but I'm pretty certain it didn't work this way "before". Anyway - I'm going OT again as usual.

[Xolanie]

the grid reference (still no clue on that one)

Warning written by the goons has some foul language ;-) But reading this will make you know more about grids then 90% of EVE :-)

http://go-dl.eve-fil...idfumanual2.pdf

Thanks

[Andy]

Awesome to finally be here and do this! Good class, even though the first day was much repetition for me, alot of new tips and ideas are now stored in the neural net. (Espacially the bookmark section is an eye-opener!) Was a little dissapointed that the class took so long to start the first day, but that happens i guess The roam started off very well, but got a little old as it dragged on with not much action in Delve. (And, a lot of blue targets on my part, so staying out of those mails) Gearing up for the Alumni roam now, and know its gonna be fun Btw: wtb interdictor class really bad! -Andy-

[Korun Raa]

Excellent class! It was quite eye opening into PvP. A big thanks to Agony for giving us this opportunity.

[Grawr Hatter]

Overall the class was very satisfying. I lived in insmother for close to nine months and we had small gang roams and I can tell you from my experience that my fcs had no clue what they were doing. Caldak on the other hand does. After nine months of null I learned more in the two classes here. Wish I could have answered more questions but when I put up my hand kept forgetting where I put my dang hotkey. Loved the fluidity of the hunt on day two. Nice to get some kills under my belt that weren't sticks for once. Nice job guys, excellent class! Grawr

[Caldak]

Yarrr the Pirates. High points, never killed a Roqual yet, so close. FC'ing and not getting on the carrier kills because I was jamming stuff. Fight with the kiting gang in 97X. All good stuff. Moving the fleet around, trying to get that fluid motion going with some tatics to split and fight. We getting there. 3 days in a row up at 5AM to play spaceships. Thanks to everyone, so much fun. Even to the nice Isk donation for the roam, wasn't necessary but a nice surprise in the wallet.

[Smantis]

The roams on both days were epic. Lost ships and loved every minute of it. For the newer peeps, I would recommend making as many as the alumni roams as possible as they will really reinforce the material that has been taught and you will find that you are picking up new tips and tricks all the time. Thanks Caldak, the FC'ing is A class. Smantis/Eklest