17 replies to this topic

[Zoddd]

Will the Wolfpack class be held next in the rotation?

[Cynn Ayres]

Any ideas as to when then next Wolfpack class will be offered?

[Corywyn]

Possibly in August, but no guarantees.

[Petra]

Hi Is the next wolfpacks lightly to use the THRASHER fits as per the last wolfpacks? if so time to get training lol

[Othran]

Hi

Is the next wolfpacks lightly to use the THRASHER fits as per the last wolfpacks? if so time to get training lol

Thrashers are generally the most flexible of all the dessies - high alpha when fitted with artillery, low skill reqs for that alpha etc. They're pretty nice with autocannons too although the RoF nerf is very effective at limiting DPS with ACs. Decent slot layout too.

tl;dr nobody is going to turn down a Thrasher on a destroyer roam

Edit - oh and a bit of advice from someone who's been on a few Wolfpacks classes - the theory section of Wolfpacks is much more important than the roam. Its sort of the other way around from Basic IMHO where I reckon the roam is more important than the theory - Basic roam allows you to see whether you actually enjoy PvP. Bizarrely (to me) some people just don't like PvP at all. Anyway pay attention in class, you will be tested later

[cr8r]

Hi

Is the next wolfpacks lightly to use the THRASHER fits as per the last wolfpacks? if so time to get training lol

Yes,

All Wolfpacks classes will be utilising the Throwaway Thrashers model until further notice.

[Othran]

Is there any point in a remote repper? I can fit one easy enough - and you used to ask for them to be fitted : [Thrasher, Agony Wolfpacks Setup] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II 1MN Afterburner II DDO Photometry Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S Small Remote Armor Repair System II Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Locus Coordinator I Small Targeting System Subcontroller I I dunno how you run the roams these days, hence why I ask. It fits so I figure may as well shove something useful in there. Same with third rig.

[Azual]

Is there any point in a remote repper? I can fit one easy enough - and you used to ask for them to be fitted

If you have the room, sure.

[AkJon Ferguson]

I know Agony loves their destroyers, but it would be great if alumni were allowed to bring nano-fit (capable of aligning in < 5s) t1 arty cruisers to wolfpacks. Something like this: [Rupture, Thrasher on Steroids] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution 10MN Afterburner II DDO Photometry Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Compact 'Limos' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile Compact 'Limos' Heavy Assault Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Fulmination Assault Missile Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Hobgoblin II x4 Hammerhead II x1 This thing is still pretty dirt-cheap (~15M,) aligns in 4.6s (versus the thrasher's 4.4s) and stacks up as follows: Alpha: 1529 vs 1266 (20% more) Turret DPS: 290.4 vs 184.8 (57% more) Overall DPS: 458.7 vs 184.8 (148% more) Effective HP: 7254 vs 4866 (49% more, albeit partially offset by larger sig radius 130m vs 75m) Effective range of turrets: 16+36 vs 10+11 (about 150% further) Disadvantages: Scan res: 564 vs 1100 (could mitigate with 2nd sebo, but wanted to compare apples to apples, 564 scan res isn't exactly terrible, but I won't be catching too many pods with this fit) Tracking: .04075 vs .15469 (if it's close enough that tracking is an issue, surely my HAMs and drones will more than make up for a few misses) Speed: 605 m/s vs 750 m/s. imo rarely will this be an issue, neither ship is going to impress anyone with its speed but nor will it take terribly long to burn out of a bubble. If you want to sacrifice a bit of gank for a bit more agility/speed/scan res, you can drop a gyro for a nano and drop a nozzle joint for a scan res rig.

[Othran]

I disagree Jon. Alumni should stick with the appropriate shipsize for the roam. Doing otherwise on sub-cruiser size is inevitably going to skew the FCs tactics - and we're just tagging along for the (free) ride. Students are the important ones. With Caldak anyway he'll sometimes suggest a ship-up after the main roam - like last weekend - so the option is sometimes there. Edit - having said that however if there was ever a rerun of HSSR, I'd love to bring a Sleipnir so I know what you mean. Edit2 - I've just realised that I have never ended a Wolfpacks roam in a destroyer, neither as a student or alumni. Ended up in a Stiletto on my student class and a Wolf on the one and only Wolfpacks roam I've done as alumni. I've also never lost a destroyer on a Wolfpacks class - which is amusing.

[Corywyn]

The new Wolfpacks is Trashers only, that includes Alumni unless otherwise specified. e: and the only thing that Alumni might be able to bring is frigate sized support (inties / covops).

[Othran]

Do you use dictors on this roam Corywyn? I'm assuming you do, so there's no point in alumni bringing inties unless you're a bit light on class support for the night. Then again thinking about the last Basic class, we could have used a couple of ranis in place of the Ares later on.

[AkJon Ferguson]

I disagree Jon.

...


Edit2 - I've just realised that I have never ended a Wolfpacks roam in a destroyer, neither as a student or alumni.

Sounds like you disagree less than you think you do. T1 cruisers are no great shakes, but T1 destroyers are broken (unless you're suicide ganking something.) Thrashers are the best of a bad lot. I'm happy to bring my thrasher and my destroyers V and do what I can but it's time to face facts and make wolfpacks into a t1 cruisers roam (and my suggestion was meant as a step in that direction, not as a way to upstage students.)

I may bring a cov ops to this.

[Othran]

I disagree Jon.

...


Edit2 - I've just realised that I have never ended a Wolfpacks roam in a destroyer, neither as a student or alumni.

Sounds like you disagree less than you think you do. T1 cruisers are no great shakes, but T1 destroyers are broken (unless you're suicide ganking something.) Thrashers are the best of a bad lot. I'm happy to bring my thrasher and my destroyers V and do what I can but it's time to face facts and make wolfpacks into a t1 cruisers roam (and my suggestion was meant as a step in that direction, not as a way to upstage students.)

I may bring a cov ops to this.

First time the class got ambushed in some way IIRC and I was in Agony so students got ships given to them by us all to get the roam back up and running. Larg (IIRC - some director anyway) gave me a Stiletto to use. Second time nobody seemed to have a point/fast tackle so I swapped out.

T1 dessies are a niche area. I had a load of fun with Thrashers solo and it gave me some ideas for when I moved up to cruiser. More importantly it showed me that the Thrasher is not a Sabre trainer in any way shape or form. I do realise that I'm fairly "niche" too in that I didn't do PVE after the first 3 months, hence I didn't have to get into a BC or BS fast - still can't fly a tier 2 BS now with 51mill SP

People are extremely uncomfortable solo/small gang with dessies and I do understand why, but I also think a lot of that is because people think its a step back from the bigger ships they fly. If you run solo with them you'll get plenty fights, you just have to be very sharp to avoid their mates.

Having said that I suspect the best use of them for low-skilled characters is flybys, but that isn't a feasible option for a class this size. Nobody is going to sit around on gate while 50+ dessies warp A->grid->B and back are they? For small groups its very effective and annoys the hell out of the people you're firing at.

Haven't seen class/roam for a while so will be interesting.

Edit - I have a fond memory of soloing a (shitfit but I didn't know that) Thorax in an AC Thrasher - got militia "help" (ie oh look a kill to whore on) near the end which was annoying at the time. I can't imagine how bored I must have been to give that a go in Auga

Edit2 - oh and I didn't mean you were doing it to upstage students but that is the effect TBH. The alumni are generally higher skilled with more experience than the students so the FC should already be able to count on "us" more in the same ships. Putting "us" in bigger ships sort of misses the point of the entire class.

[Corywyn]

Do you use dictors on this roam Corywyn? I'm assuming you do, so there's no point in alumni bringing inties unless you're a bit light on class support for the night.

We won't let students (or alumni for that matter) come in dictors, I assume you can understand that FCs are a bit hesitant trusting people they don't know with a role that can potentially wipe out the whole fleet with a single mistake

Sounds like you disagree less than you think you do. T1 cruisers are no great shakes, but T1 destroyers are broken (unless you're suicide ganking something.) Thrashers are the best of a bad lot. I'm happy to bring my thrasher and my destroyers V and do what I can but it's time to face facts and make wolfpacks into a t1 cruisers roam (and my suggestion was meant as a step in that direction, not as a way to upstage students.)

If you want cruisers, come to advanced. Wolfpacks is not necessarily about the ships themselves so much, more about the more advanced knowledge and information.
We have a clear progression (frigs -> destroyers -> cruisers) for various reasons and there won't be any changes to that in the foreseeable future.

[Othran]

Do you use dictors on this roam Corywyn? I'm assuming you do, so there's no point in alumni bringing inties unless you're a bit light on class support for the night.

We won't let students (or alumni for that matter) come in dictors, I assume you can understand that FCs are a bit hesitant trusting people they don't know with a role that can potentially wipe out the whole fleet with a single mistake

Oh you'd have to be clinically insane to let anyone outside Agony bring a dictor on class roam - I wasn't suggesting you did. Even someone you do know to be competent and think is trustworthy could bubble you up for the lulz.

What I meant was that you usually have enough fleet inties and the dictor(s) will handle gate work so I don't see any compelling reason to bring more inties - dual-prop scram ranis possibly excepted as it'll fill a role.

Its a shame CCP don't revisit T1 destroyers, they could use a slight buff - making the sig radius maybe 60m rather than 75-90m would increase survivability when fighting cruisers/battlecruisers. Meh what am I talking about, they'd rather put more shiny crap into the NeX shop

[Corywyn]

Ah yeah - well, chaser-tackle is always great, we're not going to alpha everything ... although I do remember that once Scorp back in Providence that we pretty much one-shot with our class I personally prefer mwd+scram jags with a MSE for that role, but considering that we won't have any logistics for the fights on the roam, it pretty much comes down to preference

[Othran]

I'll bring along a dessie, if it turns out more tackle is required I got a couple of ranis in Harroule anyway so its not going to take long to swap. I don't think Othran has ever flown a ranis in anger - alt has but haven't been in one for a year or so - so he may as well dust off some hybrid skills rather than fly another Jag