34 replies to this topic

[Azual]

We'd love to hear your thoughts on the class - What was good? What could be improved? Ferret would also appreciate feedback on his instructing, given this was his first go at it!

[Dancing Ferret]

Ferret would also appreciate feedback on his instructing, given this was his first go at it!

This.

I had a bit of trouble at first cause of a mix up with the curriculum (I was actually using the wrong one, which didn't reflect on the stuff I was teaching you as Azual told me before any damage was done but meant Azual called me out to start teaching earlier than I had expected), but hopefully I didn't make my flusteredness too obvious and after I got over the initial hurdle of getting the class properly rolling I feel I didn't mess up too much. Then when Azual had to reboot cause of connection issues it was a bit flustering to have to teach a section I wasn't 100% read up on all of a sudden (which is why I handed it back to Azual when I got to a point where it wouldn't be too confusing) but I hope I did alright then too.

So please, any comments on my performance would be very appreciated.

[Ghost]

grate job Azual. keep up the good work

[Vjorn]

Again, another great class put on by Agony !lol This time I attended as an alumni, and was a much needed refresher for the roam tomorrow, as far as how Agony runs their fleet and commands. And yes, tho I attended before, I still learned something new.....woot!!!! Thank you Azual for the extra practice at the end of the session, and especially the tip about scanning for someone while still in warp. Good job, Dancing Ferret, on your first session as an instructor. Teaching is not an easy task. It takes intimate knowledge of the material you are presenting, a bit of courage, and practice/experience. I could tell that you had the first two, but your presentation was a tad rough in places. How to fix it fairly quickly? Prior to the next class, lock yourself in a room and give your portion of the class verbally (out loud) to an inanimate object a couple times. Then find a couple corp volunteers, give them that class and ask for feedback....and then knock us dead in September !lol Also......many many kudo's to you for stepping up to the plate when Azual DC'd. Thank you again Agony Unleashed for doing these classes....and I am seriously looking forward to some fun and controlled mayhem under Caldak on tomorrow's roam! Vj Edit: oh btw Dancing Ferret, I likes your sig

[Pinky Stavo]

hopefully I didn't make my flusteredness too obvious

I thought you did well mate and I honestly didn't notice any mix up. Came across very calm, controlled and knowledgable on your subject matter.

I was told that as I've done a few null sec and low sec roams previously, I may find the course a bit dry but I didn't find that at all and thought it was really useful. From my point of view the most useful parts we're the Recon Reports, the Directional Scanner, Angular Velocity and Affects / Calculations for Weapon Damage.

I'd have liked to have done more practical on the directional scanner e.g. hunting Azual down from belt to belt, but I have a 2 year old so need my beauty sleep or he'll run me ragged the next day! %-6

Cheers
Gus

[deathpain]

I thought both Azual and Ferrett were excellent instructors. I totally agree apon what was said above about what was good. The recon calls was especially usefull tho, but I definitly needed help on understanding how the mechanics of the game work, especially with the guns so I really appreciated that help. Thanks for the lessons, I will return for more lessons in the future...

[Shin]

Thanks Guys, The theory and practical section was very well done. Kudos to Ferret on a first class that many seasoned teachers would have been proud to give. The inevitable technical problems with vent were dealt with prompting and competently. Even after playing eve for over 2.5 years and spending the last 2 years of that in 0.0 this class still had plenty to offer. And the roam was even better. If there were nothing else this would still have been worth twice the isk. The 2 biggest things I took away from this weekend came from the roam the first was how keeping my cool and not panicking makes such a difference - I actually remembered to turn on all the relevant modules and even managed to warp off when targeted and warp back into the fight. I felt that most of that could be attributed to the FC's who were clear and concise in their coms and a bastion of calm in the tempest of battle . Which brings us onto the second area that I learned the most from - fleet coms and procedures. All in all a fantastic weekend many thanks.

[Bylator]

Was another flawless lead by the FC's and professionally done despite a bit of a target drought. For me, being one of the last pods in what i now refer to as the 'POD SQUAD' (copyright ) surprisingly one of the funnier parts of the night was avoiding the gate campers who were determined to hunt us down. But down to some good FC leading and sacrifice on behalf of my fellow podders we made it. So I think we've found a new agony class of the 'POD RUN', maybe a 'wacky racer' style run from null sec point a to high sec point b. Byll

[Jorsalir]

Absolutely Fantastic class! I cannot brag enough about the professionalism of all of the instructors and how much I appreciate your time and patience! Ferret, I never noticed you were teaching an incorrect curriculum and I learned from what you did teach teach so kudos. Just learning how to operate in a large fleet was outstanding. I had to wait 8 months for a class that I could attend and it was certainly worth it. And was thrilled to be listed at the top of the Zealot kill, even though I didn't get the final blow in. Thanks much mates! - Jorsalir

[Kazuma Matsuki]

This was my third roam - first as an alumni. Only observation - was that lag seemed to play a large (HUGE) role in today's roam. I would click on the "jump / warp to" button (depending on what we were doing), and experienced a 30-60+ second delay in activities. As 66% of Damp group one.. (in a Keres) I was *flustered* that I was unable to get on the field with the first folks (due to lag). I suppose the main difference in this roam, and the prior two, was fighting at the time / place of "our" choosing, vice theirs. That being said, that is how combat works. You would like to define how things work, but you have to adapt to the situation when you have contact.

[KiterTwo]

I do not know how much more I can say beyond what the others have posted. But I wanted to add that, I had waited for a year to sign up for this course. And what a worthwhile wait it was. I had a wonderful time. The lectures were professional and informative. I applaud Azual and Dancing Ferret for taking the time to teach us. For the FCs, CovOps and Skirmish folks who made the roam so great. Since my headset went belly up, I was forced to use the built in speakers on my iMac during the roam. My wife commented how professional and calm the persons talking and leading us were, even while we were being bombed, de-shipped and some of us de-podded. Kudos to Agony. I look forward to the next class (if I can sign up quickly enough).

[Ameno Kagaseo]

Props to Azual and Dancing Ferret, I thought that the class was very informative and the roam afterwards was pretty fun. My only comment would be that it would be nice to understand whats really being said on recon, I'm pretty sure I guessed right on the majority of the info being said, but what's being said and why the FCs did what they did based on the recon would be nice to know; obviously the FC can't be explaining himself during the roam, but maybe during quiet times of transit, especially if you have eyes in front and behind, it would be nice to have a better understanding of what's going on and what the other agony members are doing to help out the fleet. That way members can react quicker and hopefully make less mistakes.

[Morgit Seebring]

I had a great time. Been playing Eve for just over 7 years, and have never really bothered with PVP stuff except in times of war. I found the comms part very interesting, especially hearing it used in a practical fight situation when hearing it used in the thick of things on the roam later on. The fact that the class was split over 2 days was the only reason I was able to join in, so much kudos for that. All in all, Ferret, I think you did really well. Obviously a little nervous as it was your first time, but you coped well.

[Hammereds]

hi there guys. Just in resposne to Ameno who talked about it being dificult to see what the FC's thinking and what the other agony pilots are up to. Personaly when i was FC'ing this was mainly because i had a lot of it behind closed doors for whatever reason so made it harder get an idea of what i was doing for you guys. I had some chats open with skirmishers and was organising them a bit in there more than over vent. Sorry about that, i'm not normally a basic class FC so sorta sliped my mind. If i do this again i'll try to make sure i'm more transparent to give you lot a better idea of what i'm thinking, maybe explain myself a bit better during the tranist periods. However its worth noting that there isn't many long tranist periods to go into it in any depth round here, and even when it seems dull to the fleet the FC is thinking about who we can shoot where we can go where to avoid etc. Can get a bit hectic even if it seems slow =). cheers for the feedback all.

[Mormaulias]

As a new player I was not sure what to expect out of this class. I was impressed with the depth of the information and amazed by the professionalism of the staff. The instructors did a great job of preparing us and the Flight Commanders shepherded our pods back to safety. It was a great experience. I look forward to enrolling in future courses. Agony is an impressive organization. Thanks Guys

[Klaus Pilonzi]

This was my first class an I enjoyed it pretty much. Both instructors and FCs where calm and helpfull. Referring to Ferrets teaching: first time, good job. Maybe you could freshen up the stuff from the materials by going more into detail with some issues that are not handled there like long/short range fitting, possibilities to tweak the fitting by downgrading one part and upgrading another etc. What I really missed during the class (maybe I overheard it!) were procedures how to react when lag occurs... in the roam I was in the pretty bad situation that I hung at a gate with that damn traffic control. Didn't know how to react properly, couldn't request orders, because FC was allready giving targets... so I tried to remember destination and all given orders. Didn't work well in that situation, because we had a primary and a target for tracking (uhmmm... the foruth one...). First fight, getting mixed up with everything, warped in confused, "ah the drake... that name... primary... fire" (at least), getting fire, *puff* I was pretty mad at that point (mostly at myself for not giving comm earlier), but when I got my pod away and landed on the safespot, I saw many, many pods there - so at least I wasn't the one dragging the fleet behind or something like that. Maybe sitting that giant sack of kitties would be easier if situations that happens quite frequently have a standard to fall back to. On the other hand, things can change very quickly in 0.0, as seen in the last engagement on our way back home where gates where clear and a bubble emerged within seconds. Well, saved me a few clicks and my clone needed an upgrade within the next weeks anyway Overall it was pretty much fun and I will try to get into future classes as often as I can.

[Garulf Hirgon]

I thought Dancing Ferret did a very good job for a first time instructor. It seemed he was a little nervous early on (of course), I remember specifically the section on weapon types & damage (I think this was fairly early) I felt bad for him cause he didn't sound comfortable and wished I could hand him a beer through the interwebs. Once he warmed up, could hardly tell he doesn't do this every week @Ameno: Regarding 'knowing what is going on' during the roam, I believe you'd find the more you fly in PvP gangs, the more sense the little trickle of information coming in makes. Having a map of the area open helps too. I can imagine it feeling like flying in pitch dark punctuated by periods of intense violence Good idea on giving a little explaining of 'why a given thing is occuring', I'm sure folks wouldn't mind explaining nearly anything in fleet chat to keep the FC focused on moving the fleet, listening to intel and making decisions. @Klaus: Not a bad idea "what to do when eve will not co-operate". This roam was the first time I wouldn't load grid when jumping into a system, or saw the traffic control message, in more than six months.

[Protoracknis]

Two thumbs up for Azual and Ferret, and kudos to all the FC's and recon pilots.

The lag reduction tips seem to be spot on, aside from the grid-no-load episode and the delays in warp gate activation the actual battle lag seemed minimal. (btw... hats off to the Agony pilot that stayed behind to shadow me back to fleet during the grid loading issue.)

One area that I felt some confusion about was the general fleet structure. We were halfway through the roam before I figured out which wing and squad I was in. When CCP changed the fleet window and lumped the entire list together it was not an improvement imho. My apologies if this was covered in the instruction and I somehow missed it.

Overall it was a great class and a great time. I look forward to more classes in the future and returning as an alumni.

Proto
BASIC-20100814

[Carenthor Loon]

When CCP changed the fleet window and lumped the entire list together it was not an improvement imho.

It's only the new default view that's a flat list - if you click on the little triangle in the fleet window to bring up the options menu, you can choose to "View as Hierarchy" (or something like that - I'm not in game at the moment to check the exact wording) to get back to the proper fleet view.

[tigkill]

One area that I felt some confusion about was the general fleet structure. We were halfway through the roam before I figured out which wing and squad I was in. When CCP changed the fleet window and lumped the entire list together it was not an improvement imho. My apologies if this was covered in the instruction and I somehow missed it.
BASIC-20100814

Your wing/squad is in the header of the fleet window.

My feedback on the class:

Very nicely done. Information/agenda was well prepared, and tailored for the scheduled time. Your new instructor should be promoted to full instructor status, if that hasn't already happened. Nicely done, sir.

One item to consider including in basic that some students may not know.....is the using of the selected item window for warping and such. It is much faster than right clicking something in overview, especially if overview is changing alot due to gate transitions, etc.

The roam was extremely well done, with agony members providing pre-roam intel to the FC, and seemingly reading the FC's mind as to what will happen next. I was also somewhat shocked that the student group was so well-disciplined on comms as well as transitioning gates, holding cloak, etc. Having 50 students, and 45 or more alums holding cloak is quite a feat, indeed.

[Protoracknis]

When CCP changed the fleet window and lumped the entire list together it was not an improvement imho.

It's only the new default view that's a flat list - if you click on the little triangle in the fleet window to bring up the options menu, you can choose to "View as Hierarchy"

Awesome, I had not realized they left the option available, The default view had been adequate for 5 or 6 pilot fleets but this was my first experience with a 98 pilot fleet and in default it was a complete fuster-cluck. Thx for the heads-up.

[cr8r]

(btw... hats off to the Agony pilot that stayed behind to shadow me back to fleet during the grid loading issue.)

You're quite welcome. It's always a shame, albeit a good lesson to the rest of the fleet, when a straggler gets picked off trying to catch back up w/ the fleet. We don't normally fly w/ a rear guard, but I thought it would be beneficial since we had so many DC's from the lag attacks. I myself was subject to an early removal from fleet when a thunderstorm rolled in just as fleet was rolling out and killed my power thus taking away your XO.

As for transparency in fleets, it's not really our goal in a basic class to make you critical fleet thinkers, and often times, there are bad people in our class fleets trying to set up class ganks so if we are working out a fleet maneuver, we don't necessarily want our target made aware too early. It's also a function of the FC. Some FC's are stream of consciousness types that talk through everything out loud, and others internalize and the fleet is sometimes left wondering how they got so far so fast w/ so few words spoken. The more you fly with different FC's, the more you will get used to what they want/need from you as a skirmisher, scout, or fleet member. It's all about seat time.

Still trying to figure out how I got the newly christened 'Gingerbreadman' out... I've never gotten through a class w/o losing a ship before.

[Dancing Ferret]

Thanks very much for the feedback folks, hopefully next time I'll manage to do it without making any mistakes.

Maybe you could freshen up the stuff from the materials by going more into detail with some issues that are not handled there like long/short range fitting, possibilities to tweak the fitting by downgrading one part and upgrading another etc.

Some more advanced fitting stuff is actually taught in the other classes, including long vs. short range fitting in Wolfpacks.

And, in regards to dealing with lag, that might be a good idea actually.

oh btw Dancing Ferret, I likes your sig

Thanks It's made from a picture by a chinese artist named Ruan Jia

I'd have liked to have done more practical on the directional scanner e.g. hunting Azual down from belt to belt, but I have a 2 year old so need my beauty sleep or he'll run me ragged the next day! %-6

The beauty of it is how easy it is to practice yourself, even if you can't get one of your friends to help you, you can just run around high sec trying to find miners in belts or industrials at planets (if there are any doing that anymore).

[Melissa Blick]

The theory class went really well with Azual and Ferret. Ferret had to do an unscheduled takeover when Azual had vent issues, and it went really smooth. I could see Agony had put serious thought into stream-lining the class much more since last time. I had the benefit of taking the last basic class with SkrewedUp. I liked the 5 jump tour in hisec to get everyone used to the basics of moving in a large fleet. Last time many of us had to learn how to do this during the first roam of the roam, which made the FC's job much harder. I also liked the stop at Tew to make sure everyone had med-clones close by and the reminder to update skill clones. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of targets during the roam. The two large gangs we encountered were too much for us. And then we had the CVA bombing run in G7AQ. The bombing run was was so well timed, I can't help but suspect they had someone in fleet with us. Special thanks to Giznitt for escorting all the pods back to hisec. We were blocked off several times by gatecamps and probes on scan looking for us. Meanwhile Giznitt had to wade through the massive list in fleet to move us into his wing, while simultaneously making us bounce of celestials and safespots. Thanks also to the two students in pods who scouted ahead for gatecamps. Wish I had the guts or the skill to do that. We finally made it through the assah gate with a sabre chasing us. Somehow Giznitt managed to get the sabre caught in his own bubble, and got us out.

[Klaus Pilonzi]

Maybe you could freshen up the stuff from the materials by going more into detail with some issues that are not handled there like long/short range fitting, possibilities to tweak the fitting by downgrading one part and upgrading another etc.

Some more advanced fitting stuff is actually taught in the other classes, including long vs. short range fitting in Wolfpacks.

I'm looking forward to it, but that's not what I meant... those where just examples that came into my mind, not knowing anything about your schedule or pvp other than basic class. Your lesson was secure and precise but a little bit... dry. Just find some tiny interesting bits of information or examples that are not in the Wiki-materials and your teaching would become more interesting to the students who actually read the materials.
Wouldn't be necessary, just room for improvement.

And referirng to the roam again and the 'precise' stealth bomber attack in particular: I can only speak for myself, but I'm attending class to learn not to kill. Especially the bomber run was a nice lession... I've been hit by three bombs and came out with 75% structure left. Back to fleet then, I can't remember seeing any pods, I think one or two pilots actually lost their ships, but my memory is blurred by the adrenalin. So bombers are dangerous, but not as dangerous as legend may tell us. Same to the rest of the roam: every minute was learning time and I appreciated it.

Nevertheless what I said about killing... was quite thrilled to get the killmail for the Zealot 8)