49 replies to this topic

[cr8r]

OK, We know there were some issues w/ vent, Eve, and general network issues. These are beyond our control (at least at the instructor level). We apologize for any problems our students may have experienced, but let us not dwell on this. What we want to know is what are/were your impressions of the classes and roam. Good, bad, or indifferent, we want to hear it all so we can continue to tweak on things to make it better in the future. So let us have it!!

[Casiella Truza]

I knew most of the seminar material already, but I did pick up a few tricks here and there, and generally found it worthwhile. Having played for several years and PVPed in the past, I expected that. SkrewedUp did a good job with the instruction besides occasionally getting things confused like sig radius vs explosion radius. That can happen to everyone, especially after a long day, and I don't think it detracted in any significant way from the actual seminar.

I had to leave the roam a bit early due to RL aggro (saw spousal combat scanner probes on my D-scan, warped out of EVE . However, while Caldak seems very knowledgeable, I occasionally had trouble understanding his accent. That's not a criticism, obviously, just noting what did make things difficult in a few occasions. It got more difficult when the scouts had lots of crosstalk over him.

The larger problems in the roam stemmed from the students, I think: not differentiating "align" from "warp" and "hold" from "j^mp". I know some of that was probably from nervous pilots having never been in nullsec or possibly even a fleet, but it did cause some operational problems. As simple as it sounds, some folks do need more explanation in the seminar about the difference between those things.

Also, at least twice we had confusion from secondary FCs giving orders that seemed not to mesh with the primary FCs orders (just before docking at the Freeport the second time in the roam, for example). My bad, apparently I keyed my mic a few times. Subsequently, I changed the PTT key to CTRL+ALT to avoid future recurrences.

And students: when they say artillery is preferably to ACs, they mean it!!! Targets melt FAST and you will likely not get a shot off if you're trying to burn into range first.

I did enjoy it, considered it well worth my time and ISK, and hope to attend future BASIC roams and advanced classes, however.

[Skrewed]

... SkrewedUp did a good job with the instruction besides occasionally getting things confused like sig radius vs explosion radius. That can happen to everyone, especially after a long day, and I don't think it detracted in any significant way from the actual seminar.
...

There's nothing quite like being way too distracted by RL events, then getting in a class and thinking, "this isn't going too well", then watching it get worse. People not being able to connect to vent and the repeated disconnects added to the distraction. It certainly wasn't my A game. I really like the weeknight classes too. You all were a good class though and really seemed to pick things up well. I also really appreciated all the Agony guys that filled in spur of the moment and helped handle things.

[Rivella]

Class was pretty straight forward and well explained. eally enjoyed the roam, started slowly, but the fight in 6-OQJV was epic...shame I died so early in it, but it's ofc part of the game. Hoping to fly with u again asap.

[Kerzack]

Alumni get back in fleet for free remember! o7 should be some news soon...

[Shaalira]

The BASICS Class Undocks at AGONY Freeport!

Clearly presented lecture and an epic battle to top off the roam - serious fun. Thanks for everything!

Though bubbles were not covered explicitly in class, seeing the Agony members deploy them first-hand taught us a lot about their use in controlling battlefields, predicting an enemy's movements, and laying traps. One thing that might be pretty helpful for the next roam is a post-battle debrief to discuss what both the class did and what the enemy did at the important engagements. A lot gets picked up on the fly, but a summary would help reinforce the lessons learned.

Any quibbles, however, are minor. An excellent class all around.

[Mangala Solaris]

Epic roam.

[Grintau]

Spectacular theory, esp. hands on with manual piloting with great feedback from instructors. the roam was incredible. i went in expecting to sit for the 4 hr and then hi-tail it back to hi-sec, but just couldn't get enough. there were times, especially at the beginning where things were a bit confusing, but i think once i (and perhaps everyone else) got into the groove of it, it was very, very smooth running. On occasion there were conflicting orders, but i think that's just a matter of learning to adapt to the situation faster. I learned more in the first 2 hours, honestly, than i did in the first part of the course, just in terms of fleet movement and comms. That's no slight against the theory section instructors, they did an incredible job, but sometimes you just need to be in the middle of the fighting to really "get it". Thanks again to SkrewedUp and Caldak for leading us around. Thanks to the scouts for keeping the great intel. And of course, thanks everyone else for showing up and working hard. I hope you all learned as much as I did.

[Alias Forgotten]

Epic roam! The battle with [LEGIO] in 6-OQJV was really awesome. I never thought my biggest worry in a battle like that would be running out of ammo. I look forward to the next.

[Orosono]

I really need to sleep, but that roam was awesome. The hour long battle in 6-OQJV is probably the most fun I've ever had playing EVE, can't wait to fly with you guys again.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Too tired to write much. Best roam ever even though sadly I was in a pod during the best parts. Epic 45+ minute fight (well ok, for me it lasted less than a minute, but oh well, serves me right for straying into smartbomb range.) Mynxee kill. In spite of missing what was by far the best part of the roam I still managed to rack up some nice killmails and enjoyed overheating modules for the first time. I was poised to score my 10th podkill of the roam and my guns burned out. Oops. Wish it had started a little earlier, maybe I would have been a tad sharper but glad to be back in the saddle.

[pclov3r]

Awesome! I will be coming back again to do it. Wish I could have lasted longer in 6-OQJV but I got within smart bomb range as I had to many distractions. Thanks Agony for the class

[Pesets]

Was an epic roam, even more so than usual. Thanks for everyone in Agony who's working on these classes and roams. My only concern is that squads were sometimes used as self-sufficient groups even though they were basically random. Especially goes for the alumni squad, generally used as bait/initial tackle - which kinda calls for everyone having tackle (and maybe a bit of a tank), but i'm not sure all alumni had a chance to realize that's going to be their role and fit accordingly. I also don't think we ever did any ewar balancing, but that's probably less of an issue given our numbers (and in fact would be a royal pain and take forever with 80+ people).

[Melissa Blick]

Been a carebear for since I started playing this game, and running L4 missions was the most fun I had so far. While I admittedly live in a wh, I've had limited 0.0 PvP experience . All the fights while patrolling solo in the wh were hardly exciting .e.g. my ham drake vs. solo destroyer (no challenge :mistrust:) or my drake vs. large fleet of cruisers/bc (no chance x)). This was a very different experience. We had such a terrific FC and equally good recon. Really wish agony would have these roams more often, separate from the BASIC class. I'd happily cough up 10mil isk each time just to go on such a roam every weekend! (hint, hint) I recently became interested in ecm (our carrier got jammed and blown up a few weeks ago), and in this fight I was really able to see how effective it can be. I also learnt when not to use it, although that's going to need more fine tuning. Found out the hard way that ecm ships always gets primaried. In a fleet of 50+ ships, I almost always had someone targeting me. I admit a lot of my jamming was defensive; if I got targeted by a ship that has a reasonable chance of hitting me, I would jam it. I found out later, that this was not the best thing to do. Rather I should wait until I actually start taking damage, and then warp off. Which brings me to the other thing: unlike dps ships, griffins should always be aligned to a celestial/safespot, and warp out when I get aggro. With no tank, it takes very few hits to take out a griffin. The other thing is that a dcu2 is much better than a signal distortion amp. You survive a lot longer to actually jam stuff. Pesets mentioned that a 200mm plate is even better, but then I'd have to swap missiles for rockets to fit powergrid, and that causes it's own problems (range, speed and align time). One suggestion I have for the class is that we always return to esa to re-ship. A lot of students ended up in Freeport where it's not always easy to find modules to fit your ships. The other option is to escort a fleet of industrials to Freeport at the beginning of the class. I'm sure there are reasons why the latter would not be good idea. A second suggestion is to designate a safespot for repping during a fight. In each fight, it seems one or more were unable to fight for various reasons and spent much of it in a safespot. Could we designate someone who everyone can warp to if they can't continue fighting without repping? e.g I warped out of the fight with 60% structure, but there was no one to rep me, so I had to warp back into the fight. In a few mins, a stray hit or two took me out which would've been been a non-issue if I'd been repped. Or alternately, since I had both a armor rep drone and an offlined remote armor rep fitted, I could've repped other fleet members at a common safespot before returning to the fight. This is clearly useful when fights are lasting over half an hour, and would mean fewer pods to shepherd back.

[Jebei]

The other thing is that a dcu2 is much better than a signal distortion amp. You survive a lot longer to actually jam stuff. Pesets mentioned that a 200mm plate is even better, but then I'd have to swap missiles for rockets to fit powergrid, and that causes it's own problems (range, speed and align time).

Fit rockets, load defenders - they hit out to normal missile range even in a rocket launcher - your DPS is immaterial, your jamming isn't! The defenders will work well against heavy missile boats like Drakes. Stay aligned and speed/align time are not a factor.

[Leonick]

was great, specially when we finally got a fight in 6-OQJV to bad i had to leave when i got killed and could just join up with you in a new ship, just had to go sleep. Azual was a great instructor during the class and Caldak was a great FC although with a tricky accent (is he french or something? ) but after a while you got used to it and with a few special effects in vent helped too Also Kaz/Katzuma(or something) did a great work with relaying all the orders in the chat, was great to have when i didn't get what Caldak said I have to say though, the roam could have started bit earlier, maybe an hour or two, i think but i am not sure that most US pilots could have made that time to as many could for the class and this time it was a a Saturday and not in the middle of the week. I am in Europe and two hours ahead of eve time right now, got very late for me It worked but would have been nice if it where a little earlier will definitely be back for more basic roams as alumni and will probably sign up for a wolfpack class when possible

[Majik]

Well, that was amazing. Azual, you taught us well and hope we did you proud. The recon was excellent and took us to the battle of the century (sorry, still on a high). The bubble guys showed a masterclass in controlling the battlefield and wish I knew for a second how you knew where to place them. Caldak, you where fantastic. Gave us enough room to get into the fleet mentality but not too much so we think we're the noobs we are. Not only did you conduct the orchestra but you also wrote the symphony and a damn good one at that. It is the most fun I've had since starting EVE and it's down to you guys. You rock!

[Bylator]

A great run last night, after a slow and unsteady start the fight got intense and well orchestrated. Caldak did a fantastic job of keeping an eager group disciplined and on track, focused and motivated. Second time I have done a basic class with Agony and certainly not the last, can't wait to get into a Wolfpack run sometime soon and take this experience further. Thanks again. Bylator. !lol

[Madorris]

Caldak was a great FC although with a tricky accent (is he french or something? )

Mongolian

[Zigfor]

I got to sit in on both Azual and Skrewedup's basic class (was signed up for the US tz class, but was sitting in vent, and they had room in the EU class so invited me). It was interesting hearing the different teaching styles. It seemed that there were more questions and more basic explanation needed in Azual's class, and in Skrewed people were up to speed on some of the basic concepts from the get go. Both instructors were able to adapt to the needs of their class and give more focus where wit was needed. You had the same class outline, but each adapted it to their own style and the class needs. Kudos to both. The roam got under way quicker than I expected. Having Skrewed show up to set up the fleet helped a lot, and took some of the load off of Caldak. Caldak handled the class just right imo. Firm in the beginning, but loosened up once everyone had settled down. At first movement was awkward, with people missing or misunderstanding commands, but we got a rhythm going and got to where I think everyone was comfortable and we moved rather quickly. The train theme was great. It kept with the tactical concept of familiarity of friendlies with a naming convention, but also let us have fun with it spamming local to taunt opponents. I lost all three Maulus' during the roam. The first right out of the gate to the SB team that his us in the beginning. The second I got stuck to a gate and couldn't move at all. It was jumping into a fight and I died before I fired a shot, and I think my pod was materialized in a bad point. I did get to call a recon report from there. During the epic battle, I fought well (I thought), put my damps on targets called by the FC, added DPS to primaries, and died to indecision/inexperience. I jumped back in after a bounce close to a domi who set drones on me. Was looking for an exit and couldn't find one quick enough in the haze of battle. I loved how we had set up bounce points to move around quickly on the battlefield. I wish that tactic had been covered more in class, so we had some practice with it. Maybe it was, and my brain didn't connect the dots until that big battle. Caldak explained it on the fly, and it would have been better for us to just know what to do with a single order. Once I figured it out (which took a little bit) it seemed to help a lot. I also enjoyed watching the mastery of bubbles that AU displayed. It left me knowing I have a LOT to learn about 0.0 pvp tactics. My pod got used more than once as a warp point during the course of the evening. I got a good laugh out of that. Not ever having roamed with AU, and it being a class of basic pvp students, I was honestly kind of afraid it was going to be like a tourist safari, where we all paid money to be given a tour of "the big bad wilds of lawless space" with controlled engagements just enough to make us feel like we got our money's worth, but not experiencing "real 0.0 pvp". Boy, was I wrong. There was no apprehension or hesitation on Caldak/AU's part to throw us into battle. Definitely didn't expect him to go looking for carriers. So it was indeed a thrill to get to jump into some serious battles, where our success definitely did hinge on a good FC. I'll gladly fly with Caldak and the rest of AU any opportunity I have.

[Sever Aldaria]

Caldak was a great FC although with a tricky accent (is he french or something? )

Lol. Australian.

[Othran]

Was an epic roam, even more so than usual. Thanks for everyone in Agony who's working on these classes and roams.

My only concern is that squads were sometimes used as self-sufficient groups even though they were basically random. Especially goes for the alumni squad, generally used as bait/initial tackle - which kinda calls for everyone having tackle (and maybe a bit of a tank), but i'm not sure all alumni had a chance to realize that's going to be their role and fit accordingly. I also don't think we ever did any ewar balancing, but that's probably less of an issue given our numbers (and in fact would be a royal pain and take forever with 80+ people).

EWAR balancing is there to show how things should be done on roams. On basic you got so much that co-ordinating it in real-time isn't that feasible.

Re squads : there's an AAR report that Caldak has done. The point of AARs is to get feedback as to what you feel could be done better, what mistakes there were, etc.

Go over here and comment Pesets. Caldak likes feedback and the thing about corp fleets is that they know each other and as such are sometimes blind to issues. Nobody is going to moan at you if you point out stuff you feel went wrong.

When I was in Agony, internal AARs could be pretty brutal. That's the point of them though - doesn't matter who you are on the gang, you have a PERSONAL view of it. Scouts see the failure cascades happening early for example, FC might only see the full horror of whats going on a few minutes later.

You are alumni - go put your version of AAR. Its no less valid than Caldak's AAR but you have no real-time intel and few resources compared to him. I know when I put criticisms to Caldak about his class roams then he was quite happy to listen, even when I was talking total nonsense !lol

tl;dr CONTRIBUTE TO AARs. Don't put fanboi stuff in them but don't make it insipid. If you genuinely think stuff could be done better or have a "Plan B" then post it. That's what they are for, kudos to Caldak for doing it outside corp.

[Dancing Ferret]

Lol. Australian.

Isn't he a South African who moved to Australia?

[glepp]

Lol. Australian.

Isn't he a South African who moved to Australia?

Yep.

[Sever Aldaria]

Lol. Australian.

Isn't he a South African who moved to Australia?

Yep.

I thought that was Fassin???