27 replies to this topic

[Skrewed]

Let us know what you thought, good and bad. Instructor: Granger, Azual, TeaDaze FC: Caldak Great class and roam, thanks for coming out guys. As alumni you can now repeat the class or come on the roams at no charge (if there's room). Wolfpacks is out next class in the series and really starts getting into more advanced topics, particularly in bookmarking.

[Dracthera]

Awesome class! Nothing bad to say about it. All the instructors were very professional, and demonstrated significant expertise for the course material. Communication was explicit, direct, and to the point without much side banter. I feel a lot more comfortable in keeping cool during engagements. Too bad we didn't get a lot of targets for a while during the roam, but such is life in EVE. I'll definitely recommend this course and Agony in general, and I'll show up for future roams and advanced classes. Thank you!

[CampoV]

I'm one month and a few days old in EvE. Never had a PvP and never been to nullsec until this class. I can't imagine a better introduction to either. Received my first killmail - I got the final blow on a Dominix (with so many pilots on it, my getting the final blow was pure luck - but who can complain about such a first killmail). For me, the roam was everything. The pre-roam class is great, and essential for someone like me who'd never flown in a fleet before, but the roam was incredible. I'm very glad it took some time to find targets. Gave me a chance to get used to following FC orders (not following one later on in the roam got me podded). Nothing but good things to say. Miss Granger did an excellent job with the pre-roam class section (as did the guest presenters) and Caldak was likewise excellent in his role of FC during the roam as were the support members. In short, a great ISK investment. Many thanks to all.

[Tehmeh]

Fantastic course. I learned more in 8 hours than I've gathered from a year mucking around on my own. Great FC - very calm and clear instructions. Excellent work by Agony recon and covops staff as well. Definitely going to sign up for Wolfpack as soon as I can and will come back as Alumni if space permits. Thanks again; fly safe.

[tugin]

First off I want to thank all the Agony pilots who accompanied the class on our roam. Your professionalism truly shown through many times. Caldek did an excellent job as FC, it kinda sucks we couldn't find anyone to give us a good fight . I saw my first bit of null-sec on this roam as well as received my first killmail on an onyx, which was luck of course but still exciting. I absolutely plan on taking more of your classes in the future, and look forward to joining some other basic classes for roams. I'm sure you will see more of my corpmates in classes as i had a blast and will be sure to spread the word about your pvp classes and their excellent instruction/implementation. cheers, Tugin

[jportell]

Very informative. The instructors really knew their stuff. Wish I could've gone on the roam but I'll definetly be there in the future.

[Aether]

imma gonna send out a survey to all graduates of this class in 2-3 days, once graduates list is posted please fill it out - it's gonna be brief, only 10 questions

[dGecko]

Welldone Agony guys, for a good structure and well planned out course. Even somebody like me, who has been in EVE for some time even learned a few new things. Which is why I would recommend these classes to just about everybody. Sadly couldnt join the roam, since I would have been drooling on my keyboard at 2am, probably icicles too in -5 degrees C :dodge: Looking forward to join another one as an Alumini. Again well done guys.

[Jim_diGriz]

A very enjoyable session. Nothing was rushed, instructors were calm, patient and very knowledgeable about their specific areas. All classes and practical were spot on. The usage of communications showed the importance of clear and detailed information when relaying information to the fleet commander. Even the usage of Covertops and the information relayed back was a very important lesson. Listening to Miss Granger talk about the Overview was enlightening, I now have another TAB just for Highsec travel showing only the gates. Thank you for the course and your time, it was the best 12million isk I have ever spent in EVE and I will be recommending that my fellow corp members attend a PVP Basic as soon as possible. Best regards and I hope to see you on the next course. Jim diGriz

[zeul'tuk]

very nice work with the course everything was explained and not rushed , going to sign up for Wolfpack as soon as I can and will come back as alumni if space permits.

[Granger]

I now have another TAB just for Highsec travel showing only the gates.

Just to re-iterate guys - this is a useful tab if you are (e.g.) slowboating a battleship through hisec, but I would not use it for hauling valuables, and also make sure you switch back to one that shows neutrals/hostiles when you go into lowsec or 0.0 !

[Kallen Brack]

For me, as a new player, this was a very valuable and worthwhile class that I will (and have) recommended to others. The overall structure is solid, with knowledgeable and skilled people sharing their experience and expertise, followed by a practical examination given by random opponents discovered in 0.0 space. The following ideas are feedback intended to be constructive criticism, and minor ones at that. The classroom instructor, Miss Granger, seemed to have a clear agenda on what materials would be taught, and when that material would be taught within the class time frame. Would it be possible to share that agenda with the students at the beginning of class, or even before the class started on the website? It could be simplified, like First hour: Taking role, setting up fleets, comm basics, 10 minute break Second hour: blah blah blah etc. etc. 10 minute break Third hour: yadda yadda 20 minute break before roam. I am very glad that the material was made available to the students to study before the class, because I learn well from reading. However, it made some of the classroom presentations redundant. Might it be possible to describe what is going to be covered in the upcoming section, so that those who have spent the time beforehand learning the published material can grab something to eat or browse the web in another window instead of taking the risk of getting bored and losing focus? Would it be possible to add a section on interface, esp. fleet interface? I didn't know how to set up a watchlist, or how to warp to a covops pilot who wasn't on my watch list, or a few other fleet-specific commands and tools, since I have never even been in a fleet before... I had no idea what my new windows were, much less how to use them. Is there any way that feedback could be given to the students after the roam? Something like "Overall, good responsiveness, but a few were slow to align," "man, herding cats is easier," "Too slow in landing Ewar on secondary targets," "DPS was weaker than I hoped," or "you guys talked way too much in chat" would be nice so that we have some idea how we performed overall. I think one skirmisher said in vent, near the end of the roam, "good group" and the FC responded "yeah," but that was pretty much the extent of the direct feedback on our performance in the roam. Specifics would be helpful to me. Again, these suggestions are minor ones, and may not be worth the effort to implement. The class was fun, informative, and definitely whetted my appetite for PvP. You can expect to see me in further classes, along with referrals for new students. --Kallen

[DtEarth]

First I would like to thank all the Agony staff for putting these classes together. I know you hear this a lot however, these classes are great training tools to so many of us. I would also like to thank the alumni that show up to these classes to help out. Miss Granger, Caldak, and special guests did a great job explaining things and FN'n. I specially like the reading material. Prepared very nicely. Helpful so one doesn't fall behind during class. Which can happen because the class moves quickly. So it's enjoyable and not to long for others. One can just read over, work on what they didn't understand, or just take the class over. I really wish I had taken this course many months ago. Everything that is covered in this class I have learned the hard way. Lots of ship loss and ISK. Many little things have been learned from this class. This class should be a must before coming down to 0.0 space. As a person living and at war in 0.0. The Roam was the most interesting part of the class. It was so interesting to hear and roam with a different corporation. Nice to see how others work things. And to look for different targets beside war targets. I really enjoyed the different date and time of class. I work weekends so it was nice to have a class during the week. Which I'm sure it's harder on Agony staff. PS... You didn't have a second quiz. We don't have a winner of the second class. So that means that we all automatically get into the next class right. !lol Like when the stores forget to give you your receipt. :amazed: Just joking

[Celestyal]

Great class!!! Wish i could have gone on the roam with you, but othert issues arose in rl that called for my attention. I will for sure be attending another class as an Alumni. Will be an honor to fly with such informed and experienced pilots, students and instructors. The class material was very informative and to the point. The instructors demonstrated and put forth the material very effectively. It was easy to understand and will indeed, I am sure, save the lives of the students in hard situations, and will most definitely make a more effective PvP'er out of us all. I am going to recommend that all our Corp pilots attend at the very minimum the PvP Basic class. I will also be signing up for the Wolfpacks class in the future and most likely will sign up for all of them over the next few months if scheduling permits. Great class, great instructors and great information. Awesome all around!!! Celestyal

[Azual]

I am very glad that the material was made available to the students to study before the class, because I learn well from reading. However, it made some of the classroom presentations redundant. Might it be possible to describe what is going to be covered in the upcoming section, so that those who have spent the time beforehand learning the published material can grab something to eat or browse the web in another window instead of taking the risk of getting bored and losing focus?

This is actually something we've discussed quite a bit, since it's a pretty common point of feedback. Some people don't learn well by reading hence why we cover a lot of it in the class too, however I understand your feelings on this one. There's no easy solution, but rest assured it's something we're aware of

Would it be possible to add a section on interface, esp. fleet interface? I didn't know how to set up a watchlist, or how to warp to a covops pilot who wasn't on my watch list, or a few other fleet-specific commands and tools, since I have never even been in a fleet before... I had no idea what my new windows were, much less how to use them.

The class is already pretty long so I'm not sure adding yet another section is the best idea. However, do you think a wiki article on the topic would be useful? If so, I can see what I can do (since I was actually considering making something similar anyway).

Is there any way that feedback could be given to the students after the roam? Something like "Overall, good responsiveness, but a few were slow to align," "man, herding cats is easier," "Too slow in landing Ewar on secondary targets," "DPS was weaker than I hoped," or "you guys talked way too much in chat" would be nice so that we have some idea how we performed overall. I think one skirmisher said in vent, near the end of the roam, "good group" and the FC responded "yeah," but that was pretty much the extent of the direct feedback on our performance in the roam. Specifics would be helpful to me.

I'm sure if you ask any of the agony guys after the roam/during a break how they think things went with regards to X (e.g. comms discipline, ewar useage etc) they would be happy to elaborate! There has also been talk of publishing after action reports for classes (there should be a short one for one of the wolfpacks classes a little way below this thread to give you an idea). I can't really say at this stage whether of when that'll become common practice, but I'm guessing something like that might check this box for you too!

[Xaddak]

First of all, a huge thanks to everyone who helped run the class. I'm sorry I couldn't come on the roam, but I stayed later than I really should have anyway. =P The class was very interesting. I honestly didn't even notice how fast time was going by because I was so absorbed into the material. I feel that I learned a lot, and I can't seem to shut up about the course to my friends who play EVE! A lot of the things I learned were things that I had heard about (spiraling in toward targets, etc.) but had never had to put into practice, so the practice sessions especially were of great use for me. If I do retake the class, I will probably go through the class section again before I go on the roam just to make sure I have it down. That is my only complaint (although it isn't much of one), is that there is a LOT of information crammed into a very short period of time. The hourly bio breaks are a good idea (although 15 minutes might be a bit much per break, maybe more like 10). Maybe I should have been taking notes instead of just paying attention, though? O.o All in all, a very good class, I feel. Your professionalism shows. Everything was very well organized and really, I couldn't ask for anything better than how it turned out. I'm already recommending it to everyone I know that plays.

[Jankum]

Was really looking forward to the class, but last minute emergencies prevented me from participating. I am looking forward to the next class and will watch the sign up page for that to happen.

[Kallen Brack]

The class is already pretty long so I'm not sure adding yet another section is the best idea. However, do you think a wiki article on the topic would be useful? If so, I can see what I can do (since I was actually considering making something similar anyway).

Yes, that would be ideal for me. Especially since, as I noted before, I learn pretty well by reading.

--Kallen

[Glyn Katanaga]

I've been in 'real world' military exercises that didn't run anywhere near as smooth as this course. I was most impressed with the efficiency and brevity in the voice comms. The length of the course was a bit long, but necessary. Also, a short wiki article on 'spiraling in' on a hostile would be helpful. It would have given the class a chance to practive on a hostile asteroid prior to class, or at least be familiar with the concept. I've nothing but kudos for the course and especially the cadre. I look forward to seeing you all in Wolfpacks (sooner rather than later, please.)

[Gata]

Hats off to Miss Granger, Caldak and all AU pilots for making this class possible. Highly recommend to new and graduates alike. As always, great to have multiple instructors touching on various topics and areas of expertise. Still managed to learn a few things despite being my 3rd BASIC in less than a month. Roaming with Agony is always exciting and fun. Organization and dicipline of Agony FC/pilots is most admirable, and they don't back down from a good fight like many other fleets. A few very minor suggestions for consideration: 1. Instructors being cheerful and genuine interested on subjects covered. It is hard to be constantly upbeat and not get distracted for two hours plus on ends. Quite understandable why presenters seemed to run out of steam at times in a number of classes. Having greater numbers of guess speakers could greatly mitigate strain on main instructors by allowing them much needed breaks. 2. Kallen Brack suggestion on posting a rough course objective, pointers and time table at the start of each class would be a welcome addition. Although articles on pre-course reading already stated, a slightly more detailed instructor overview should futher focus students attention. [blockquote]Would it be possible to share that agenda with the students at the beginning of class, or even before the class started on the website? It could be simplified, like First hour: Taking role, setting up fleets, comm basics, 10 minute break Second hour: blah blah blah etc. etc. 10 minute break Third hour: yadda yadda 20 minute break before roam.[/blockquote] 3. A brief post action report as metioned by Azual above. 4. Perhaps an optional pre-/post- class quiz for students to gauge their knowledge. Obviously these quizes would be taken outside of the class. Agony could easily build a database if each instructor/ speaker generates a few questions, answers and their reasons. Once it is established, not much effort would be required for updating and could just add new contents as needed. Such database would also serves as a trainning tools/ knowlege storage for upcoming Agony instructors and members.

[outlaw46]

very good class as always nicely done gents

[Asphy]

As many have said before, a very good class. I certainly have learned a lot and intend on joining again as alumni to rehearse the learned material. The roam was great, and all effort taken by FC and class crew to find targets (they did a hell of a lot of work to get the fleet engaged into a good fight) was greatly appreciated. However as class continued, targets where hard to find. Explaining why some actions where taken, or what the class just had experienced (e.x. the strange major alliance thing, the point on the pod without killing him (initially) etc.) are greatly appreciated. The "fitting" ships according to Hydra principle was going a bit fast as I was taking notes. This however was compensated by reading the corresponding wiki article before class. Thanks all involved for a great experience!

[Ma Ch'ao]

This course was well worth taking, and extremely informative. I found myself learning things, even when we were covering topics I thought were pretty straight forward and self explanatory. The expertise and experience from the course instructors was never doubted in my mind as they spoke upon their chosen subject, and I am greatful to have been given privy to this knowledge. It was well worth the ISK! Caldak and the roam also was extremely fun. He lives up to his reputation as an 'epic FC', by not having a dull roam. At first I was nervous, as it seems we were not having much luck chasing down the fleet we were after in 0.0. I also was quite surprise at either the reputation/skill of the Agony Pilots in following the said fleet. They outgunned us, and still were running, I thought this part was a hillarious! Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to fly with Agony Unleashed, and a special thanks to the Covert Ops who provided the scouting reports. You truly are the unsung heroes of the roam, being our eyes and ears, and locating targets. Not to mention it's got to be frustrating to 'unleash' us and watch the fireworks, instead of being involved in them. Very professional, and very enjoyable. I will be signing up for more classes, and would like to have the opportunity to participate in even more Basics. Thank you Agony Unleashed, you showed me a part of EVE that at times I never thought I would experience.

[Kerzack]

o7 Remember anyone who has done basic is welcome to come back and attend the class again as Alumni - either the theory / roam or both. Just sign up as usual and state you are Alumni - free of charge!

[Ecatherina W]

o7

Remember anyone who has done basic is welcome to come back and attend the class again as Alumni - either the theory / roam or both.

Just sign up as usual and state you are Alumni - free of charge!

Wheee, I think I may do that! (again? and again? and again?)