22 replies to this topic

[DaDutchDude]

In the EVE-O Game Development Forum, there is a discussion topic opened by CCP Chronotis about changing the roles and bonusses of ECM ships.

We have been looking at all the ECM ships (Griffin, Kitsune, Blackbird, Falcon, Rook and Scorpion). We wanted to ensure each ship had a more focused role which was not just bigger, longer range and better than the others so only one wins outright. The two main themes we were looking at was short range brawler and long range sniper. The brawler would focus on ECM strength at shorter range and the sniper would be longer range but weaker with niches in these areas for each of the ships.

Now I think these are interesting and probably good changes, but there is something missing. Most ewar ships have the staying power of a paper bag in a thunder storm. Making any of them a "brawler" only makes sense if you at least give them the ability to take some punches. This problem doesn't just relate to ECM ships but all ewar ships.

Discuss!

Another topic is focused on changing the Stealth Bomber.

The main way we are looking at changing the stealth bombers is switching them to fit siege launchers and use torpedoes focusing on a anti-battleship role. Each bomber would gain a damage bonus to its racial damage torpedo of 10% per level) in addition to being able to fit 3 siege launchers as now.

The result of this is much higher damage to larger targets such as battleships but at the cost of range as you have to get much closer to your target. This has pros and cons such as much shorter duration before your torpedo hits and being able to cloak or get away faster after firing but also increases the danger as you have to be extremely close to your targets.

Now this could be quite interesting, esp. with the Agony style of warfare:
1) get some Stealth Bombers in close and ready
2) jump in a support group to start mayhem in target group and get some ewar on various targets
3) decloak stealth bombers and obliterate a battle ship in a single volley
4) cloak and reposition stealth bombers
5) support warps back out
6) ...
7) profit?

With a fleet of 7-10 stealth bombers and a support fleet of 10-15 man in assault frigs fitted in hydra style, not many ships would survive. Add in perhaps some Hyena's for target painting and even sub-BS stuff like HACs would pop in single volleys.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Tea]

I don't like the focus on making everything close range, it is a nerf to range damping as well as avoidance tanking. I prefer the idea of dropping the optimal and strength on ecm and making it scripted like damps and tracks so you can have shorter higher strength or longer range but weaker. Bombers can't warp cloaked, so this is a major nerf as instead of crawling while cloaked to get on grid within 150km you will now have to crawl on grid and get under 50km (I guess) or risk warping in uncloaked and give the game away as to where you are (ceptor could get to you in seconds and torps vs inties will be even worse than cruise missiles are. Why not let us have cruise or torps on a bomber so we can choose and while they are at it fix bombs. The nice thing about eve is that there are multiple ways to fit a ship, but if they keep trying to single focus them then I can't see it as anything other than trying to make the tech 3 stuff look more useful...

[vissuddha]

I want some of what CCP is smoking :alien: Fly-by torp wielding SB's...cool. Having to wait for the perfect engagement to utilize the torp SB is pure crap. If they add torps to them & give a velocity bonus to the SB/torps, also dropping the sig radius to the size of an inty....maybe..just maybe a use for them can be found.

[Azual]

I'm no stealth bomber expert, but the changes they are suggesting seem to narrow down the usefulness of the ship even more.

Yes, they would do more damage to battleships and go a little faster cloaked, but you're making them even less effective against everything smaller than a BS, and cutting down their engagement range by about 95%. And now you have a ship that is only really effective in very specific circumstances against a very specific target group.

I'm sure we could find good uses for them, they would be pretty cool for ambushing and possibly for flybys against any BS that put themselves off gate, but outside of those specific uses I can't really see it making the ship any more useful, or solving the current problems with them at all really.

As far as the ECM changes go, I do actually like these. Putting the optimal/falloff relationship more in line with other ewar should make damps etc a more viable counter to ecm. The changes to signal distortion amps should mean they are no longer a manditory fitting, meaning more options for fitting (range, buffer tank, cap mods, damage mods etc), plus if I read that right it will affect ALL ewar! Extra range on damps in exhange for one low slot, yes please!

The 'brawler' stuff seems a big weird, but I think it's more just the wording than anything. Falcons would still be very effective force multipliers, decloaking at 50k and jamming with improved strength before cloaking back up and warping to a new tac etc, but now would actually be putting themselves in harms way to do so. The rook might actually get some use outside tournaments too, with basically the same advantages over a falcon that the curse has over a pilgrim, increased range and combat performance. The scorpion changes I think are pretty interesting too, although I don't know how (if at all) scorpions are used at the moment.

Plus actual ecm itself hasn't been made any less effective, other than the range, which imo is a good thing.

So... yes to the ecm changes, a confused no to the stealth bomber changes.

[Discipline]

i wouldnt mind as long as you get a choice of cruise or torp

[Dr oozy]

Stealth Bomber going short range with torps to kill BS's ... Is it free crack week at CCP or something?

[Tea]

i wouldnt mind as long as you get a choice of cruise or torp

I think choice is key for this and the ecm

You have short and long range guns
You have short and long range missiles
You have scripts for tracks, damps etc

Give the players choices and just tweak things a little instead of making drastic changes.

If they are talking about close range torp bombers does that mean they've finally given up on bombs?

[vissuddha]

If they are talking about close range torp bombers does that mean they've finally given up on bombs?

Dunno, Bazman, & myself posted in the thread with many others stating they should focus on fixing Bombs before doing a complete overhaul to the stealth bombers.

If they nerf my favorite ship into oblivion, I will hunt every CCP toon in game & kill them every chance I get ~

[Karasuma Akane]

See what happens as soon as I get a Falcon and a Manticore? :mistrust:

[Dranearian]

ECM change was needed. It was becoming he who had the most falcons won. You would have a fleet for 100 people and 30+ of them would be in falcons. (all completely safe sitting 150km from the fight with the ability to cloak/warp cloaked). They went about it differently than I would have though. I would have just personally taken away the falcons range bonus and left ECM untouched. Give a smaller range bonus to the rook and go from there. You shouldn't have retardedly insane range AND the ability to cloak. the ability to cloak is supposed to make up for NOT having the insane range. (I also think that rapiers should lose some of their range bonus in turn for web strength bonuses, while the huginn gets the range bonus)

[Mystic]

\0/ nerf falcons, fiiiine by me. Now nerf local !lol

[Dranearian]

goons would threadnaught again if they nerfed local and CCP would bend over backwards. Really don't think you will see local vanishing anytime soon

[Jelanen Farshot]

I really have a hard time finding a good use for my SB. Its too much a passive weapons system where you have to be prepositioned. I guess if you know that a gang is coming to you its fine, but I much prefer being an active participant and doing the hunting. Getting in closer with this ship is just not a good idea. You can do alot of damage with a SB gang as it is, but people don't want to bother since, like I said, its a passive system.

[vissuddha]

I really have a hard time finding a good use for my SB. Its too much a passive weapons system where you have to be prepositioned. I guess if you know that a gang is coming to you its fine, but I much prefer being an active participant and doing the hunting. Getting in closer with this ship is just not a good idea. You can do alot of damage with a SB gang as it is, but people don't want to bother since, like I said, its a passive system.

Ah then you are not using the SB to its full potential.

The "passive system" as you describe is but 1 role this versatile ship can fill. Yes a target must be pinned down by a tackler in order for the SB to unleash its fury. But I think you will find that a necessity with a bunch of ships that fill a certain niche.

SB is just as comfortable going for a roam, & helping in cap warfare as it is sitting perched above a bubble. the pilot just has to know the limitations that accompany using such a ship in a given situation.

I say this from experience, I use the SB in many different roles with great success.

[vissuddha]

I've been doing some thinking on the 1 role a torp wielding stealth bomber would be extremely useful.... Black Ops hot drops on camps or sieges.

[Sanfrey]

I've been doing some thinking on the 1 role a torp wielding stealth bomber would be extremely useful....

Black Ops hot drops on camps or sieges.

This. Totally. Absolutely times 10. I've done black ops operations and bringing some kick arse DPS would be awesome.

Falcons - just remove that low slot strength module; a damp should have the ability to damp a falcon. Or, make damps longer range. But with the awesome speed that the new probes can get a fix on a falcon sitting 250km off, they are no longer safe or untouchable anyway. I'd rather leave them unchanged for a little while till we kill lots more of them

[Dranearian]

I'd rather leave them unchanged for a little while till we kill lots more of them

Wait wait wait...

Iron kill something? :amazed:


<3 Sanfrey I still say you should take me up on my offer!

[Sanfrey]

Iron kill something? :amazed:

Rells, a couple of days ago, I thought he quit. 'parrently no..

<3 Sanfrey I still say you should take me up on my offer!

Maybe when I'm single again. I know you'll wait for me.

[Dranearian]

Iron killed Rells?!?! YOU BASTARDS!!!! lmao.... And oh yeah baby I will.

[Bamar]

They killed our POS too, it was worth it though

[vissuddha]

They killed our POS too, it was worth it though

[vissuddha]

Get on Sisi my fellow bomber pilots. You will need the training time to relearn this ship.

[Tea]

Get on Sisi my fellow bomber pilots. You will need the training time to relearn this ship.

learn how to swap to your pod escape overview if there is an arty thrasher near you when you decloak