14 replies to this topic

[Ged Hawkins]

Our new corp would like to create a corporate account for members to take classes with Agony Unleashed. However, we would like to maintain relations with CVA in Providence / Catch, and understand that AU classes often (ahem, cough cough) violate the NRDS policy in that region. Are there any suggestions on how to avoid causing problems for our corp standings with CVA, while still being able to take AU classes? Do you ever offer classes where it is pre-announced that the roaming destination will NOT be CVA? Or, might it be possible to use a corp account to pay for low-skill out-of-corp alts to at least take PVP BASIC? (Not ideal, because a number of us would like to take the advanced courses as well.) Could we use a corp account to pay for our mains, who temporarily drop from our own corps? (Not ideal, a bit of a hassle, dropping and rejoining, and needing to refiddle roles, etc.) Any suggestions or comments would be welcome. Thank you.

[rells]

AGONY does not synchronize its classes with the blues of the students. That would be impossible as the whole game would be blue. I would advide you to tell your friends about the class and advise them to duck because AGONY shoots anything not us and when in a class its anything not agony or grouped with AGONY. That is our long standing policy. And I think I speak for the majority when I say "to hell with cva carebears"

[Sever Aldaria]

If you have blues off your overview then you shouldn't ever agress them and end up on the killmail. If you have to follow NRDS in Providence then I guess you wouldn't be able to shoot anything during the time we're running through Providence.

[Baka Lakadaka]

Rells has prety much answered on the policy side of things. But there are options: 1) using low skill alts for Basic is quite doable, but as you point out, the Advanced course does take some training and you might have tio use your mains for that. It is possible to switch between your alts if necessary. 2) No-one forces you to open fire and you can choose to not fire on a particular target. This would be an issue if a large part of the gang was electing out, so you'd need to send your people on several courses, rather than trying to get them all on to one (we don't want to engage, only to find 90% have opted out)

[Sanfrey]

We also run classes in Nonni which roam around Pure Blind. And now that we know it's no huge burden to run classes in other places, we might even try somewhere else! I suppose people have always had the problem - what if you're blue to people in Pure Blind? So at least now we have some options. Also remember that it's only the practical part that involves shooting things. You can come on the theory part regardless of where it is, and you'll still learn what you need to know - if you want to take your own corp mates out for some pew elsewhere, or want to wait and catch up with one of our non-Curse area classes, you can do that too. Cheers

[Kerzack]

Just Do It!!! You'll be fine...

[Ged Hawkins]

Thanks for the responses, all made sense, much appreciated.

Just Do It!!!

That's sort of my take on it. My personal preference would be to just go out there, get the experience, and deal with the consequences, if any, later. But exploring potential options seemed a good idea too. Will report back to my corp, and hopefully get our account opened with you by the end of the weekend.

[Kerzack]

He He - i've never really been known to be .... um... less than.... IMPULSIVE @@!!!!!!!!!!@@ making sense... well that is a new one!!!!

[Ecatherina W]

Create a student corp for your pilots. Have someone w. JC standing set it up and be in it for 7 days, then you even have JC standings in the corp when he/she leaves. Great idea for any corp to have. BUT! If I am understanding the CVA hassle correctly, the red status MAY follow the individual. My personal opinion goes a bit like Kerzacks, with the addition that if any CEO sends a student along and then does NOT back the student on lawful (non-Blue) kills, then he/she is a spineless no-good... ehm... piece of trash. Of course that is saying it less than politely. If I was currently accepting applications, then you could also park your students in DGAF, as we are by all accounts red to CVA. Kath

[Dago]

I'm curious about CVA views on this topic. I'm sure they know what the PvP University is and how it works. Did you, or anyone else, try to just get an official statement from them?

1) using low skill alts for Basic is quite doable, but as you point out, the Advanced course does take some training and you might have tio use your mains for that. It is possible to switch between your alts if necessary.

Care to elaborate? How would one go for the qualifying link-to-previous-classes in the enrollment post (looked up the How To but it does not mention this case)?

Does that also apply to alumni? What if one comes as alumnus and it turns out that using an alt would benefit the fleet more (example: low skill alumnus realizes an extra eye could be useful but cannot fly covops, another alt could but it has not been in the class yet)?

[Kerzack]

Generally on classes - even as alumni the roles of covops / skirmishers / FC's / Dictors etc. are covered by agony pilots. The skill requirements for basic are very low - so as to include the maximum number of pod pilots as possible. They are linked on the basic class announcements. T1 Frig fitting isn't all that hard and if you are a major player in an alliance that has thousands of blues it might just be easier to train up a pilot for a few days and then recycle him so as to avoid any political entanglements. Heck I bet you could even train one easily on a trial account if you used a highly focussed single race Hydra Fit Frigate skill plan... As for official statements and politics... meh - our best diplomats don't wear any pants and we generally answer in monosylabic phrases ending with gf! We've been on the CVA Kos list for a long time... if they see 20 red flashy's and a bunch of neutrals enter local... don't continue to mine ice.... As for the smart boming Domi - it's been said... he went for a few easy kills and got handed his arse - then tried to make a few bucks by being a bully. Such is the way of EVE... 8)

[Dago]

Generally on classes - even as alumni the roles of covops / skirmishers / FC's / Dictors etc. are covered by agony pilots.

Yea. If you are writing that because of my example for alumnus wanting to switch alt in the post above yours, I actually realized that covops would probably not be the best example for exactly that reason. It just was an example that popped up in my mind while posting.

But the general question "can alumni come with an alt, and how" is still valid. Plus I can actually figure out some other examples of why that could be useful. For Wolfpacks an Amarr alumnus may want to call his Minmatar slave (aka an alt) in a trasher as the coercer has only one midslot. Same for an Advanced alumnus that may have an alt with skills in a different race ship/weaponry at the cruiser level.

Another, related, question that just came thru my mind is this: graduation requires being present for the theoretical part, less so for the practical part. Would it be possible to enroll two alts in a class at the same time (paying for both) and then actually be there with only one physically but still graduate both? For classes like PvP Basic (not sure for the others) the first part is so easy in terms of physical presence that probably one could actually dual box it then drop one for the 0.0 fleet. However I would advise anyone doing this to actually inform the leaders (maybe even not enlist the other character in the fleet setup to keep it clean).

[Kerzack]

Ah - no worries - I seemed to miss what you where getting at... not the first time or last I assure. As for brining an alt - not a problem... we often allow them when some one is all flashy and can't enter empire. He attends with an alt and then uses his main in the o.0 portion of class. In general Agony is concerned with the RL player or student and not the toon in game. Just make sure to arrange it with the instructor beforehand to ensure there isn't any confusion. We

[Dago]

In general Agony is concerned with the RL player or student and not the toon in game.

It does make sense, of course. I think I've read somewhere that the support software (read: the web based services hosted on this site, IGB tools etc.) are under development and due for an overhaul. If that's so you may want to embed the above logic in the system.

Many current mechanisms do not follow that logic. Think the link-to-previous-course system, for example. Or the fact that the forum and wiki, being based on "standard" packages (e107 and mediawiki), do not understand multiple identities.

Ideally one should be able to register a login (bound to the person), set up multiple identities (each optionally bound to one or more characters) and go from that. If class registration is handled with a web based form not only you get a lot of automagic stuff done for the enrollment processors, but also get the chance to code it so that when someone takes a class all the alts are automatically credited.

I know that's not easy unless there's someone that actually do web development and is very committed (and even so, it's much less fun than just go and PewPew in EvE instead). But that would be the "dream" site for Agony.

For the moment the questions remain: are alumni officially permitted to credit alts? What about extending the link-to-previous-class with an "as " suffix to qualify it? That would probably need a second post from the alt account on the forum for confirmation, unfortunately. What about a mechanism to enroll all alts in a class, eventually specifying that only one will be physically in the class fleet but still getting all of them as "graduated" in the class enrollment OP?

[Ecatherina W]

It does make sense, of course. I think I've read somewhere that the support software (read: the web based services hosted on this site, IGB tools etc.) are under development and due for an overhaul. If that's so you may want to embed the above logic in the system.

Many current mechanisms do not follow that logic. Think the link-to-previous-course system, for example. Or the fact that the forum and wiki, being based on "standard" packages (e107 and mediawiki), do not understand multiple identities.

Ideally one should be able to register a login (bound to the person), set up multiple identities (each optionally bound to one or more characters) and go from that. If class registration is handled with a web based form not only you get a lot of automagic stuff done for the enrollment processors, but also get the chance to code it so that when someone takes a class all the alts are automatically credited.

I know that's not easy unless there's someone that actually do web development and is very committed (and even so, it's much less fun than just go and PewPew in EvE instead). But that would be the "dream" site for Agony.

For the moment the questions remain: are alumni officially permitted to credit alts? What about extending the link-to-previous-class with an "as " suffix to qualify it? That would probably need a second post from the alt account on the forum for confirmation, unfortunately. What about a mechanism to enroll all alts in a class, eventually specifying that only one will be physically in the class fleet but still getting all of them as "graduated" in the class enrollment OP?

1. The ingame software does not care about previous classes. It cares about the pilot who is in the class, who has been given a link to the ingame browser session in fleet. So no need for that to be fixed.

2. You DO register a login and then you can use whatever alt/main you want. I have used at least 3 different chars, but always the same login and the same vent identity.

3. Alumni are allowed to use whatever alt/main they want for classes they have completed. They do not, however, need fancy skills any more than non-alumni. We are, as alumni, allowed to bring some t2 frigs, but it is not necessary and only a few of us (mainly former Agony members) are used in any capacity other than basic squad leads, rear guard/local and just extra manpower.

[blockquote]When you sign up, you do like this...

Using main, same name as the account name
Ecatherina W - Ecatherina W (DGAF)

Using alt
Ecatherina W - Psycho Tigress (DGAF)[/blockquote]

You link the classes you have completed in your signature (look at mine) and it does not matter what alt/main you used for the class. The check-in is done manually by Agony students, who, if necessary, will check if you have the required class.

Did that help you understand how it works?

Kath