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[FEEDBACK] PVP Basic on SAT 20 SEP 1530 Eve time and roam

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#1 Cmore Hanaya

Cmore Hanaya

Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:59 AM

We found a few ganks a couple of fights and a little bit of teaming up with some old friends.


I'll leave the AAR to our FC Klytus


Please feel free to post your feedback in here.


We know it was a long day and running both the class and roam it is unusual and was very tiring for you guy's.


Hope you all learned something new and had fun with the roam



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#2 Klytus


Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:42 AM

This was a great turnout, with a full class and great numbers in fleet both at the start of the roam and six hours later!
Our first engagement was in PF-346, where Noir. had set up a T2 large bubble on the FD in gate.  Our scouts got eyes on the setup - Ishtar with its drones assigned to a remote sensor boosted Hyena, along with a Sabre and Loki on grid.  We put a bait squad through to FD while holding in X-B, and sent them over to PF.  Apparently even this small local spike spooked them, as the Ishtar aligned and warped off before we could get in system and establish point.  No such luck for their Sabre and Loki however... Loki strangely enough was a ganglink ship, but they were also using it for the ReSeBos...
Our next engagement was against CAS in BMNV.  They had gotten eyes on us during the above kills, and had assembled a fairly direct counter to our setup in the form of approx 10 overtanked Vexors, a Myrmidon and some tackle.  We assembled in X-M on the BMNV gate, they on the other side.  We both had eyes on each other, and had a bit of a Mexican standoff - our numbers and EWAR against their anti-frigate capability and tank.  Rather than bore the fleet to death, we ended up hopping into them, which was obviously suboptimal.  We decloaked and started hitting a Vexor, breaking it decently quickly, but given our knife range to them, we began to trade ships quickly, including our dedicated EWAR boats.  We managed to pop 2 more Vexors but lost 17 of our ~47 ships.  This was mostly down to us taking the initiative to actually have some content and hopping into the hostiles - if they had found some courage and come into us, it would have likely been a much more even fight, as our EWAR would have been able to mitigate more of their damage.  Still, a fun fight and good training for getting into and out of a challenging engagement.
BR is messy but gives the general idea:
We headed back to Stacmon, got folks reshipped, and then checked out East Syndicate.  First target was a Pilgrim that cross-hopped our scouts.  We bubbled him in, holding fleet one system out, got him to aggress, and brought the hammer down.  We were aligned out as we killed him, awaiting the cyno, which went up, but we melted him too quickly for his backup to make it through!  Pretty funny engagement.
While moving through the back pocket around 6E/6-C, we came across an Ineluctable Talwar gang that warped at range to our gate piecemeal, eventuallly totalling about 8.  Talwars are an absurdly hard counter to frigates, as their combined alpha strike (>1000 damage per Talwar) can volley a frigate off the field before it can react.  We lost a couple of ships here, including one who had aggressed without the FC's call - remember, don't aggress in such a situation without the FC explicitly calling it.  
We got a nice, sweet spot of revenge however with a nice bubble catch tactic, with Gizz warping at range ahead of fleet, bubbling, then purposely warping fleet into the bubble.  Sadly only a single Talwar followed us to his death, but it was a satisfying kill and shut down their local smack nicely.
Next kill was a bit... bizarre, but was a great opportunity to employ some specific tactics.  We were pursuing a BDEAL small kiting cruiser gang around 6-C, when a Thorax hopped into us on the 6-C gate in EZA.   We had what was sure to be an easy point and kill, when he cloaked up.   As a Thorax is not a designated Covert Ops ship, any cloak fit to it will drop its speed by 75% (T2) or 90% (T1 cloak).  In essence, unlike a CovOps cloak ship which can get a full-speed MWD cycle off under cloak to avoid proximity decloaks, the Thorax was essentially going to sit dead still.  We employed some gate decloak tactics - deployed drones, dropped cans, and encircled his cloak point.   Pretty quickly we nailed the decloak,  established point, and burnt him down.
We grabbed a few quick frig kills in 6-C, but the rest of East Syndicate was quiet on intel, so we headed back towards 8V-SJJ, where scouts had sighted another Noir./Suddenly Spaceships gatecamp patrolling 8V/K5.  We very narrowly missed landing a bubble on the entire camp on 3KNK gate in 8V while they were aggressed (after a bit of hurf blurf from them in local, they proceeded to whelp utterly in FD later, and we killed the last straggler there as well).  Whilst trying to locate a probing solution on them, Saygen scored a hero point on a Goon Crow that was keeping tabs on us, and I brought the fleet over.  To my delight, a Goon Orthrus had also engaged our scouts and was trying to kite off and kill tackle.  A seriously ballsy scram was landed (I believe by Rev), and was held while our AB-fit frigates moseyed on over and started to lay on dps.  Honorable mention to our Griffin pilots, who scored some key timely jams that likely kept our initial tacklers alive.   Just under 1.2 BILLION isk kill!
Scouts caught the scent of a Black Legion gang headed into the BMNV pocket.  After identifying their comp - a Police Pursuit Comet gang, with Keres and Sabre support - we gave chase.   They ran away at best speed from us, but nonetheless we caught a Comet via bubbles and good skirmishing.  But the real fun with them lay on our return out of the pocket.  
We had intel on a BL Arazu entering 31-MLU, where we had earlier seen FIGL bringing out some heavies (Vindi, Domi, etc.) on their undock.  Sure enough, the Arazu showed up at FIGL's home station, and began to tool about around the undock perimeter.  Wary but curious of what skullduggery BL might muster through their cyno, we checked it out.  After some unsuccessful grouped bumping attempts, we got in contact with FIGL who was game for attempting to burst down the Arazu before the full weight of BL could make it through.  Notably we also put eyes on their main staging point for the area, just to make sure we were not about to have 100 Muninns or Ishtars show up on grid.  With FIGL bringing Talwars, we did a coordinated strike on the Arazu, which had quite the insufficient tank.  It lit cyno, but only managed to get a few ships on grid before exploding gloriously - a Nidhoggur, Muninn, Cerberus, Scimi, Rapier.  We warped off as soon as the Arazu popped, but rejoined the fight immediately and wrecked the Cerb.   FIGL killed the Scimi and the other two ran off, so we all started in on the Nid.  We put it into structure before it docked, likely just some friendly trolling by the cap pilot but certainly worth the ammo!
Heading back to Stacmon, we got a few small kills including a nice quick skirmish with a DROOG frigate fleet in FD.  Heading through Ostingele, ROX got a scan on a Thrasher detachment at the small outpost.  We got eyes on grid, and had 2 Thrashers on grid with the other 10 or so in the plex.  We warped at 0 to the outpost, landing on the Thrashers' faces and melting them.  
Being outmatched in dps by 10 Thrashers, we had no intention of actually entering the plex, where a killbox could be pre-set by them at our landing point, killing us as we landed before we could even target back.  We hung out at range from the acceleration gate to see if they would warp out and come back.  In the interim we had various and sundry ships land on grid, from Fweddit kite frigates to a stabbed Exequror (wat) to a.... Rattlesnake?!  It was pointed out that the Rattler had warped to the site at 100 fro m Stacmon.  Saygen burned over and landed a first point on him while I bounced fleet off Stacmon gate and back at 100.  It worked perfectly, as we landed around 6Km off the Rattler.  DPS applied, EWAR applied, away we went.  J4LP joined in Merlins, Slicers and Crusader; I held off aggressing them unless we were redboxed by them, as I was sure that they wanted the Rattler too.  Sure enough, all third parties stayed solely on the Rattlesnake, breaking its tank surprisingly quickly.  Just as the Rattlesnake went down, I rolled tacklers over to proximate Fweddit Merlins.  Tackle was spread really well, and we melted Merlins as fast as I could call them.  The EUNI Thrashers sitting in the plex had finally come out to play, burning out at us, so I warped the fleet to a safe and regrouped, then got into Stacmon and wrapped it up.   
Rough math on the evening is over 3B isk in internet spaceships destroyed... Killboard is decidedly GREEN.  But more pointedly, I really liked the spread of engagements we encountered, and the commensurate tactics we had to employ - everything from baiting, to assymetrical ship class warfare, to probing, to decloaking.  Inevitably some of it probably veered above and beyond the BASIC curriculum, but hopefully it provided a good taste of how you can take the foundation that PVP-BASIC gives you and employ and evolve it.
Many thanks to all AGONY support pilots, the scouting, skirmishing, and bubbling was paramount in enabling much of the above carnage.  Job well done.
All in all, I had a great time FCing you all, and I hope you had a blast flying with us!  Remember that PVP-BASIC graduation not only opens up the rest of our curriculum to you, it also extends an invite to all future BASIC roams!

#3 Koldz


Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:47 AM

A Koldz Haiku For the PVP BASIC CLASS.  Entitled "A Koldz Haiku For the PVP Basic Class'


They did come to learn

And sharpen blades bright and keen

Lessons writ in blood

#4 WalterCohen


Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:39 PM

First Basic and my First Day with Agony ... Great theory portion and great information made even better by their interactivity \ (bow to the sensei) It makes the class definitely nothing boring. Kudos to the Agony teaching team. Well organized and fun to be in. But lets be honest we all came for the kill's :). After loosing my Griffin in our first engagement (Apparently I still have a hero complex and stay even if I am yellow and red boxed)  which was still part of the basic training we went on a roam. (Kills in the Basic Training just left one wanting for more). 


Multiple different engagements with different targets and fleet comps. There was hardly anything we didn't shoot at. Rusty as I am in PVP it took me a while to catch up to the sheer speed the Agony team processes and delivers information. Excellent hunters (Recon Team) which would go out of their way to get us some kill sometimes even sacrificing their own ships.


28 Kills and 3.12 Billion in destroyed isk made for an excellent tally at the end of the day. Yet all I want is more.


Thanks to the Agony University Team.

#5 Leonty Alkaev

Leonty Alkaev
  • Pip

Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:16 PM

Thanks to Agony for this magnificent learning experience. Very nice and competent teachers, with an enthusiastic and entertaining touch. :D


Been a long day, so I sadly was too tired (and it was late) to take the full roam.  But I will surely take part in other courses in the future or fly along as an Alumni.


Again, many many thanks!

#6 SayGen


Posted 21 September 2014 - 06:14 PM

Good job by all, shout out to Rev for probing, and also to Madness who did the largest amount of instruction during the class portion.
Agony notable Firsts:
--Victorieux Luxury Yacht kill
--Longest consecutive (5months) TopKiller

#7 Val Trevallion

Val Trevallion
  • Pip

Posted 21 September 2014 - 09:54 PM

I learned a lot from the class and liked the balance of lecture vs Q&A.  I'm quite sure I took more notes than in many of my university courses back in the day.  Thank you to all the instructors, well done!  The roam was a blast too, aside from the sheer fun it really hit home that (for me at least) it will take some solid practice to get the basics ingrained so I can focus on more.  I had a racing instructer who used to explain that you have a dollar to spend on focus as you get your bike around a turn, and when you're starting out you spend maybe 80 cents of it just trying to get the right entry speed, not leaving you with much for lean angle, line, situational awareness, balance etc.  As you learn each technique you spend less on it, and more on the ones you're not as confident about yet.  This pvp learning feels the same way. 


I came at this as pretty much a full time pve player, usually on the wrong side of the killmails, and I'm much more interested in pvp now, the class and roam definitely were a good day.


o7 - Val

#8 BurningBush

  • Pip

Posted 21 September 2014 - 10:07 PM

I enjoyed every minute of the class. I learned a lot from you guys and plan on putting it to good use. I cant wait for the next classes I will take with you guys. 

#9 EonStorm

  • Pip

Posted 21 September 2014 - 10:15 PM

A huge Thank You to all the Agony pilots and instructors. It was a great class and my first stumbling steps into PVP. I bungled my ECM a lot...I never realized that so much would be going on and really fast. Definitely not the same as PVE for sure. But is was a ton of fun and I am looking forward to future roams with all of you. Again, A big THANK YOU all.

#10 Dagraa

  • Pip

Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:49 AM

A big thanks to all the instructors, Agony support and alumni who help prop up us students during the roam, loads of great kills and a great environment to put into practice what you taught.

I loved the Ewar section and the enthusiasm Koldz put into teaching has made me want to try out ECM ships :-)

Bow to my Sensai

#11 Othran


Posted 22 September 2014 - 05:11 PM

Remember to come back as alumni - things can escalate when you do :)


Oh and it is free.

Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#12 Othran


Posted 22 September 2014 - 05:23 PM

A big thanks to all the instructors, Agony support and alumni who help prop up us students during the roam, loads of great kills and a great environment to put into practice what you taught.

I loved the Ewar section and the enthusiasm Koldz put into teaching has made me want to try out ECM ships :-)

Bow to my Sensai


He will be blushing now :)

Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#13 lachrymus

  • Pip

Posted 23 September 2014 - 06:40 AM

Yes, many thanks for the classes. I didn't make the roam, due to RL issues - but hope to be back for the next one...