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[Feedback] PVP-BASIC February 1st @ 01:00 EVE time


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#1 Yamir Ke'Shark

Yamir Ke'Shark

Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:02 AM

Please place your feedback about the class or the roam here.

 

Hope all the students and alumni enjoyed themselves and hopefully learned something new.

 

From a skirmishers perspective the roam went very well indeed with a lot of variety in engagements and some good tactics being used.

 

Starting with the kiting fight (with Nyx) in Covryn

The pair of Catalysts trying to kill our interdictor in Harroule

The Anarchy. BC gang in Y9G-KS

Some fun in Alperaute and Gare

Some Goon killing fun in PF-346

The up and down to 8V-SKK, K5-JRD, and back to 8V-SJJ

And then some more playing with Brave Newbies around Barleguet and Vestouve


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#2 Mariner

Mariner

Posted 02 February 2014 - 01:16 PM

Great time.  Great FC'ing.  Really wasn't expecting to make this roam but glad I did.  I think we had a great showing and that the students got a very good roam with some tasty kills.  I forget how fun lowsec is, though I know that is anathema to Agony, it was really fun in Covryn.  Though all I could think of the rest of the night is that we need to put a plan together and go kill us that crazy Nyx pilot that kept warping in and out.  That's a killmail just waiting to happen.



#3 Kai Ovaert

Kai Ovaert
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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:21 PM

Thanks to Cmore, JC, Mariner, Greygal and the entire AGONY team for hosting and executing another very informative class and fun roam.

 

There were a lot of participants and I'm sure it was a bit challenging keep us organized at times, but the Agony team did a great job of working together to keep us together.

 

The "threat identification and classification" was a nice add to the course material.  I also found the Agony team's after-action report during station breaks of why we did or didn't do something to be EXTREMELY helpful.

 

Favorite quotes:

"You don't buy ships, you buy explosions"

"They have your f*ing stuff in their cargo holds!  Go get your f*ing stuff back!"

"I don't normally do this, but I'm going to tell you about a little thing I call f*ing woodchuck mode"



#4 Plasidus

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:47 PM

Thanks a lot for this course to all instructors and AGONY members being there, this course made me want to step into pvp full Plasidus time ! Just waiting to be completely independent isk wise with my trading alt.

 

I did some little roams in null-low sec in the past but it was like hours of going through systems, scouting, hiding, and with some luck going back home with one kill for the whole gang... So i was amazed, how easy it felt this time, it was like we can engage anyone, love this Hydra principle ! 

 

I realize there are a lot things to keep track while out there and it's easy to miss something, i wasn't allways in sync with the fleet and i found myself sometime too ahead or behind. I think a bit more expenrience would allow me to do everything with ease and do them well.

 

I initially subscribed in Eve for this stuff and i let myself slide in the carebearing carrier seeing it was quite hard to solo-pvp... But the adrenaline i felt yesterday was amazing !! updating buy and sell orders surely don't provides that :-P

 

From there i'm more and more thinking about going into faction warfare to get fights and experiance i don't know if it's a good idea, i've read there are a lot of possibilites for fights there so if you think it's a bad idea, please let me know !

 

Looking forward to come back as an Alumni !



#5 turtle1921

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:43 AM

As always had a great time.

 

Joined for the roam as alumni with a fleet around fifty deep.  After some initial discussion about fleet comp and balancing re hydra we were off.  Typically, it did not take the scouts and skirmishers long to find the class a fight.  First blood came from a 0.5b proteus, once in structure the pilot of which ejected rather than take the SP hit, Kill is a Kill.  Following this, we caught an Ishtar and a magathron in the same system.  Both melted under the collective fire of out T1 guns.  At this stage we also had a Nyx that kept jumping in and out of this fight trying to save his fleet mates.  If only a single point was on station we would have had another shiny wreck to add to the pile.  While in the same system, our fleet engaged a Cerberus and a tengu, even a little confusion and a split fleet on these targets they both were popped.  The Cerberus was first to go down, then the Tengu.  The students got to experience the speed that an oversized 100mn afterburner can give to a T3. Cmore called for webs and all dps and finally the T3 fell also.

 

After a short break and rearm we set off proper for Nullsec.  Reports came from the scouts of 16 BC fleet that was moving around the area.  With some juggling and anticipation we managed to get the fight in a bubble at Y9G.  Primaries were called and recalled and ships began to fall on both sides, including my own.  Once the balance was lost a retreat was called and the GTFO tab came into its own.  With our fleet reduced to pods and noob ships a trip back to Stacmon was needed.

 

Due to GF rage in had to drop fleet at this stage but as always great fun was had by all.  After action reports and discussions by Agony made what may have been unclear for some, understandable.  Especially, the behaviour of the T3 pilots and the Nyx.

 

As always many thanks to FC Cmore, JC for organising, GG and her griffin wing (best wing) and all the Skirmishers and scouts.

 

o7 Agony Unleashed PvP Uni



#6 Banned Wagon

Banned Wagon
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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:32 AM

Great class and roam. Really enjoyed both sessions. Looking forward to coming on the next one  :D

 

Screen cap of our first kill:

 

VPvsVwel.jpg?1

 

Full size image here.

 

I hope you guys will run some earlier classes for the benefit of us guys in the EU in the future!



#7 Hanshiro Arashi

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:18 PM

Really nothing short of incredible! Incredible FCing:Cmore, JC, Species for a period afterwards! Greygal, Luna, and all of the skirmishers you have my many many many thanks and appreciation.

 

Agony is a great organization! That was my first PvP experience in EvE and it will be memorable for the rest of my EvE days. Absolute best intro. So cohesive and structured it made a group of noobs feel like we could kill stuff, and we did! I'm still so pumped and excited to get back out there to learn more! Agony can take my isk any day ^_- Can't wait to see you out there again. \o/     o7



#8 Hasril Pux

Hasril Pux

Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:13 AM

At one point Jeremiah Cole said something along the lines of 'I don't think cold warping is such a great idea'.  He's right, it's not.  It should only be done in emergencies.  However...

 

Had we not cold warped our way to that BC gang, we would never have caught up with them before they made it to safety.  Regardless of how that fight went  (we all know how it went, and I apologize for missing the Hurricane primary order that came after the Augor primary order)  it was a great experience well worth the time invested.

 

I made plenty of mistakes, such as warping to the next yellow gate instead of the gate ordered by the FC, and forgot to release my drones a couple times, although I did manage to hold onto them after every fight (except that BC fight where I ingloriously bit the dust).

 

The fleet commander C'more was very professional if a bit eager, but who can really blame him with so many juicy targets and so little time.  I'd fly under you any day, C'more.  Slirmishers won the day for us.  Thank you for being there and helping us tie down that Tengu. It took me a bit of time to realize you were overshooting it to create a warpable point ahead of it's path.  I never did manage to put a web on it, but thankfully the Hydra doctrine prevailed and there were enough of us to throw at it that some of us eventually hit the mark.  Recon was spot on.  Bait was bait as ****, especially that Rattlesnake pilot.  ECM wing was also invaluable, and damn did we miss you when you were gone!

 

I particiapated in 15 kills and suffered 1 loss which makes more of a statement about Agony as a great school than it does about my own amature skills.  Surviving one of those fights into hull was epic.  I learned so much I'm still trying to come to terms with all of it.

 

Thank you for a wonderful time, it was well worth 20 mil of isk I probably would have otherwise spent on some shiney piece of carebear trash.



#9 Yamir Ke'Shark

Yamir Ke'Shark

Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:57 AM

Actually, the BC gang could've still been a good fight if they'd managed to move one further.  One of our skirmishers had quickly setup an anchorable stop bubble the next system over on their route home to catch them there if they moved faster than anticipated.  Since well.. all skirmishers shoudl carry anchorable bubbles with them for that purpose.. to quickly burn ahead or back and setup traps.


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#10 Cmore Hanaya

Cmore Hanaya

Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:23 AM

So my second run as a basic FC hopefully it wasn't too rushed for you all.

 

Yeah in my haste for the BC engagment is what killed our fleet. I should have taken that extra minute to pause and set us up properly ( i think i need to get out a FC a bit more)

 

On the whole i really enjoyed to fleet even if we did get a lot of action in Lowsec on a null sec introduction. Also i can't forget warping the fleet into the same bubble 3 times i'll have to grab my post-it notes out of the cupboard for next time

 

Props out to the the whole Agony gang for without the skirmishers and the chaser tackles we wouldn't have as successful as we were.

 

Yamir pretty much summed up the action in his first post. So as for a detailed AAR it should be forth coming when i have a spare hour to write it up. I do think going over the fights we had while on Bio/ Station breaks was a good idea> It helps us all with more situational awareness.

 

Thanks for coming along and hope to see you all return as Alumni in future basic classes


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#11 Hanshiro Arashi

Hanshiro Arashi
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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:59 AM

Being as you're the first FC that I've flown under I don't believe I can judge your abilities with any competence. However I will offer my opinion and I feel you did brilliant! The cold warping on a regular basis was a little confusing considering that if us students read the PvP-Basic reading material cold warping is explained as being rarely used but used for emergencies. I noticed some students falling behind because of it but as stated above you were in a hurry to catch our intended prey. So you used it successfully in my opinion, if not a little out of the reading materials context.

 

 Quick question: Is JC an abbreviation for Jermiah Cole? Or is JC another AGONY member? I'm very sorry if I've got them mixed up -_-

 

Another note about the class and the roam,

   The attention to detail by the AGONY instructors, always asking if STUDENTS were left behind and answering almost every single question asked! Large amounts of patience observed by AGONY was respectable too!

Really made the experience feel solid.  It was worth every last ISK paid. 



#12 Jeremiah Cole

Jeremiah Cole

Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:38 AM

That's quite alright, Hanshiro. JC is an abbreviation, easier than saying Jeremiah Cole and rolls off the tongue much nicer. :)

 

Definitely glad you enjoyed yourself, and I hope that we'll see you and the rest of our recent graduates (whose names I'll be adding to the graduate list in the morning*) at future Basic classes.

 

Thank you everyone for the great feedback, and of course if anyone has any further feedback (positive or negative, we love it all) this thread is open.

 

* I've been a little busy as of late, but that's a promise.



#13 Hasril Pux

Hasril Pux

Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:54 PM

Actually, the BC gang could've still been a good fight if they'd managed to move one further.  One of our skirmishers had quickly setup an anchorable stop bubble the next system over on their route home to catch them there if they moved faster than anticipated.  Since well.. all skirmishers shoudl carry anchorable bubbles with them for that purpose.. to quickly burn ahead or back and setup traps.

 

What you skirmishers are capable of accomplishing is mind blowing.  I'm definitely coming back as an alumni in basic, and I'd definitely like to advance through your curriculum as well.  I want to help other players the way Agony does.



#14 Hanshiro Arashi

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:35 AM

 

Actually, the BC gang could've still been a good fight if they'd managed to move one further.  One of our skirmishers had quickly setup an anchorable stop bubble the next system over on their route home to catch them there if they moved faster than anticipated.  Since well.. all skirmishers shoudl carry anchorable bubbles with them for that purpose.. to quickly burn ahead or back and setup traps.

 

What you skirmishers are capable of accomplishing is mind blowing.  I'm definitely coming back as an alumni in basic, and I'd definitely like to advance through your curriculum as well.  I want to help other players the way Agony does.

 

 

 I'm with you 100% Hasril Pux! They're incredibly talented! Also coming back for every class I can attend as an alumni and further curriculum!

 

 

 Good to know JC ^_-



#15 Jeremiah Cole

Jeremiah Cole

Posted 05 February 2014 - 08:00 AM

Finally got the graduate list up, sorry everyone!

 

Thanks again for attending our first PVP-U event of the new year!



#16 Aote

Aote

Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:13 PM

Great fleet, thanks CMore. 

 

I wanted to post this here because it was a question asked later in the fleet (a question regarding gate sizes), and while I answered it then, I don't think it was a very complete answer, and by that time a lot of the students had left. This was the part of the fleet when we took a Rattlesnake into Low-Sec to provoke BNI, and they responded with 50+ ships with BS and logi. 

 

Back to the point - 

Before we got to Barleguet (Brave home systems), the fleet was playing around with some ships in TXW near the Vestouve gate. This Vestouve is the first hop into low-sec from Syndicate and therefore the TXW gate in Vestouve and the Vestouve gate in TXW are both "Regional Gates." While playing around trying to grab ships, it was brought up that the gate was a Regional one so tackle should be prepared. The question was asked, "Why does it matter that it is a Regional Gate."

 

The short answer, which I provided during the Roam is that Regional Gates are larger, making it more difficult to tackle. 

 

The long answer. First see this for the basics: http://www.agony-unl...for_Gate_Tackle

Now the next step:

Eve Stargates come in 5 sizes and also with different models depending on faction

1. Standard - Basic and most common gate found between 2 systems in the same constellation. Is the smallest gate, and gate models matters the least because they are all roughly the same size and shape

2. Constellation - Gate between two constellations - larger than Standard, but the actual size depends on faction type. Biggest variation in shape and actual size probably occurs with these gates. 

3. Regional - Gates between regions (the Vestouve gate in TXW is an example) - caveat, not all inter region gates are regional gates. If they are not a regional gate, they will usually be a constellation gate. This is especially true in 0.0. I would say most of gates between 0.0 regions are just constellation gates (the exception being smuggler gates). The Regional Gates in 0.0 are mostly in systems connecting 0.0 to empire (they may be exclusively for 0.0 to empire, but I haven't checked every gate in Eve, so I can't say for sure). 

4. Border - Borders between empires, and the largest gates

5. Smuggler - Gates in 0.0 that link systems in two different regions that are separated by a vast amount of space. Roughly the same size as a regional gate but with slightly different models.  

 

Why does size matter? Read the wiki article. 

The basics - a ship decloaking after hopping in a system will generally decloak between 10-12KM off the edge of a stargate's model (not from its centerpoint). Therefore if you are at or near zero on a standard gate with a long point, any ship decloaking will be within in your point range. This makes tackling on standard gates easier. 

 

As you move up the list, the size of the gates increase. I don't believe that CCP has ever released the exact sizes for the gates.

 

So with a regional gate, if you sit at the geometric center of the gate, it is likely that a ship decloaking 10-12km off the edge of the model may decloak outside your point range, or at least very close to your range. The other issue with large gate models is that it becomes easier for ships to reapproach gates because in order to jump (meaning be at 0) is for them to reach the edge of the model. So two ships could both be at 0 on the gate, but be many kms apart, especially on a regional gate. 

 

The other issue that pops is that there is degree of variation on the constellation gates, making some harder to tackle at than others. Namely many people will complain about the Minmatar one that looks like a long tube. The model being long and narrow can create wide variations in where a ship will decloak. This tends to be a very easy model to burn back to in my opinion. 

 

Remember, that all of this information can also be used to help you escape as well by knowing when it may be easier to burn back, or alternatively overheat your MWD and align to quickly exit point range. 



#17 Chi Tsumi

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:32 AM

It was awesome, took on somebodys uh apprentice? whatever you call your new members ^^ then got on 19 kill mails (i was on only 1) definantly gonna be back for more classes



#18 Othran

Othran

Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:57 PM

To those of you aiming to be good skirmishers - #1 rule is don't die. #2 rule is don't die. #3 rule is - OK you get the idea ;)

 

Dead skirmisher catches no ships - although it is sometimes necessary to bite the bullet and "take one for the team" when its a juicy target/dodgy situation.

 

Don't get target fixation - I'd recommend you move your locked targets down to just above the HUD with your health stuff. That way you see your own ship too when you get target fixated. Will save lots of ships in the long run too.

 

You're no use to the FC or the rest of your gang if you're dead. Having said that you are going to have to die a lot of times before you get the experience to know whether to stick or run.

 

Catch 22 sometimes - but luckily the peeps from Agony are here to accelerate the process for you.

 

Sounds like I missed some fun, too late a start for me though :(


Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#19 Itkovian Beddict

Itkovian Beddict

Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:54 PM

To those of you aiming to be good skirmishers - #1 rule is don't die. #2 rule is don't die. #3 rule is - OK you get the idea ;)

 

Dead skirmisher catches no ships - although it is sometimes necessary to bite the bullet and "take one for the team" when its a juicy target/dodgy situation.

 

Don't get target fixation - I'd recommend you move your locked targets down to just above the HUD with your health stuff. That way you see your own ship too when you get target fixated. Will save lots of ships in the long run too.

 

You're no use to the FC or the rest of your gang if you're dead. Having said that you are going to have to die a lot of times before you get the experience to know whether to stick or run.

 

Catch 22 sometimes - but luckily the peeps from Agony are here to accelerate the process for you.

 

Sounds like I missed some fun, too late a start for me though :(

 

While that is all generally good advice, it is worth noting that on the typical (early hours of a) PVP-Basic there will be a large number of skirmishers and one or two dying is probably not an issue.  In other words, you can be more aggressive and if you die, the fleet will still have eyes.  A competent skirmisher will base their aggression / risk level largely on how much of a problem it will be for your fleet if you die.  I've been on fleets where both skirmishers died in a single engagement a little way from home and it isn't fun...



#20 Othran

Othran

Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:17 PM

I mean when they "go back" to their normal corps Itko, not on class - that is the "acceleration process". You have the backup then.


Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#21 Itkovian Beddict

Itkovian Beddict

Posted 06 February 2014 - 08:27 PM

I mean when they "go back" to their normal corps Itko, not on class - that is the "acceleration process". You have the backup then.

 

Yup - I wasn't disagreeing with you just clarifying.



#22 IP Freehly

IP Freehly
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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:08 AM

Waiting anxiously for the next PVP Basic class to be announced!



#23 Itkovian Beddict

Itkovian Beddict

Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:34 PM

Waiting anxiously for the next PVP Basic class to be announced!

 

It definitely won't be until end of March at the earliest as we have everything up to there internally scheduled.  There will be one early next quarter though, if not the end of of March.