140 replies to this topic

[Othran]

 

 

 doubling the range on secondary E-war effects (web, point, neut).

 

60km webs on the Hyena? Nice!

 

might make it interesting to fly at last

 

 

Hopefully they remember to do something about the EAF's crap targeting range while they're at it.

 

I don't think anything will make the Hyena "interesting". Tolerable perhaps

[Silas]

I don't think anything will make the Hyena "interesting". Tolerable perhaps

Guess a Rapier isn't your cup of tea then...

[Othran]

 

I don't think anything will make the Hyena "interesting". Tolerable perhaps

Guess a Rapier isn't your cup of tea then...

 

 

I generally fly Minnie - or I have in the past. I've always thought the Minnie recons were somewhat sub-standard to most of the others. Don't get me wrong, I see their role but I've just never been able to find a fit which I enjoy.

 

I dunno whether most of you will understand this but there are fits that just "click" with you and even when they become obsolete due to changes you still enjoy/try them. Then there are the fits which are technically very good but bore the arse off you (Caracal does that to me). Then there are the ones in the middle which annoy you as you always feel you are a fraction away from a "click" fit which isn't possible. Minnie recons/eafs are like that for me.

 

NB - by a "click" fit I mean one you enjoy flying and do OK in, rather than a perfect EFT warrior fit.

[Sever Aldaria]

Nullified inties will mean more inties on our kb imo. I've been testing with Gillian and a fast lock inty with a Sebo and 3 remote Sebos will insta lock and point an Ares before he can warp away. The nullifier will give inties a false sense of security leading to more tackles.

Honestly how often do we catch inties with bubbles? It's so easy for an inty to crash the gate or get back into warp on a catch bubble without a second dictor bubble on him. Most of the inties on our kb are from people baiting them into a fight, not catching them trying to run away.

Yes there's good points about ratting system bubbles and trying to tackle a ship that hits a bubble that the inty doesn't.

I don't like the change because I don't think it really adds anything of substance that is useful to pvp. I don't like it, but I don't think that the sky is falling either.

[Othran]

Nullified inties will mean more inties on our kb imo. I've been testing with Gillian and a fast lock inty with a Sebo and 3 remote Sebos will insta lock and point an Ares before he can warp away. The nullifier will give inties a false sense of security leading to more tackles.

Honestly how often do we catch inties with bubbles? It's so easy for an inty to crash the gate or get back into warp on a catch bubble without a second dictor bubble on him. Most of the inties on our kb are from people baiting them into a fight, not catching them trying to run away.

Yes there's good points about ratting system bubbles and trying to tackle a ship that hits a bubble that the inty doesn't.

I don't like the change because I don't think it really adds anything of substance that is useful to pvp. I don't like it, but I don't think that the sky is falling either.

 

So you have to setup an Amamake-type sebo boost to catch them and this is good? That's as close to invuln on hop-in as you're going to get given there is no gatefire on hop-in now.

 

Well it will shorten your Skirmish class, that's for sure.

 

/me wishes he could hear Toran's reaction

[Itkovian Beddict]

Yeah we could also go and camp Lowsec in insta-locking T3s too, but we won't. I really don't want to see insta-lock camps appear in 0.0 just because of this idiocy.

We don't catch many inties now because they aren't that commonly used for travel - after the change, they will be. Covops are a good travel ship but they do take some skill and knowledge to be safe in, this thing won't.

I'm not saying the sky is falling, it just makes 0.0 a bit less dangerous and that's not a direction I like. For me personally, I'll enjoy the super high speed movement in the ship I fly most commonly.

[Sever Aldaria]

So you have to setup an Amamake-type sebo boost to catch them and this is good? That's as close to invuln on hop-in as you're going to get given there is no gatefire on hop-in now.

You make it seem as if catching inties (that want to escape) right now is commonplace. Currently we can't catch inties that want to travel and use tacs anyway so I came up with the "Amamake" setup as you called it, to catch inties by throwing 3 remote Sebos on my bait exequror because it's effective. In catching fast cold warping ships (frigs too, not just inties; maybe slow to cloak cov ops too). I was doing this before they announced the inty change. As is, inty comes through and my sabre bubbles and he crashes the gate or attempts to power away and warp out (also easy). Now, he doesn't need to worry about the sabre and will try to cold warp away not expecting to be insta pointed.

Before this change, best bet to catch a inty would be to sit a dictor on gate no bubble and hope he's dumb enough to warp away so you can stop him by popping a bubble giving you time to tackle him or use remote Sebos from a ship that has free midslots (like exequror). Now, you only have one option which catches most (not just the dumb inties).

[Othran]

I'm not saying the sky is falling

 

Nor am I but the people responsible for keeping it up need a wakeup call which the current CSM isn't doing.

 

Perhaps some of you going to Eve Vegas could get a dev drunk chat to some people and get a feel for this?

 

If the warp acceleration stuff gets into the expansion (and works) then that's enough for me - its a total game-changer. If it doesn't then the "expansion" is a few minor database edits (ship balancing/changes), a couple of new shiny ships/items and that's it really.

[Othran]

 

So you have to setup an Amamake-type sebo boost to catch them and this is good? That's as close to invuln on hop-in as you're going to get given there is no gatefire on hop-in now.

You make it seem as if catching inties (that want to escape) right now is commonplace.

 

No but if this happens I can stab a travel inty and it doesn't matter where your bubbles are, I can get through unless you're sebo'ing 2 tacklers.

 

A single stab fitted (according to EFT) still means you'll have a good chance of locking anything around 100m or larger and implants/small rigs are cheap.

 

You can warp gate to gate with impunity in a 20 mill inty.

 

Ummm is that not enough?

[glepp]

Or perhaps they give EAFs enough scan res to instalock inties with a sebo fitted. Who knows.

 

Personally, i don't really mind the change, I haven't caught inties in bubbles for a long time.

[Othran]

Or perhaps they give EAFs enough scan res to instalock inties with a sebo fitted. Who knows.

 

Personally, i don't really mind the change, I haven't caught inties in bubbles for a long time.

 

Instalock times are +/- 0.5 secs + your latency. Or something like that

 

In short, anything under one second is down to where you are in the queue (which I know you know).

 

Actually I think a counter to the "invuln inty" (and T3 nullies) might be the EAFs. That gives them a secondary role where you can't use nullifier when an EAF is on grid. Probably fails on multiple levels but what the hell

[Itkovian Beddict]

Personally, i don't really mind the change, I haven't caught inties in bubbles for a long time.

 

I see this argument and I think it really misses the point that a lot of people don't use inties for traveling at the moment as they require a bit of skill to use if you don't have bookmarks.  I'm not saying a lot mind, but it takes some knowledge at least.  At the moment, these people use Covops to get around - and I know you've caught covops recently because with a Dictor and a mid-sized fleet, any covops that doesn't know what it is doing is taking a big risk, one that does know is taking a small risk. 

 

After the changes, inties will be the go-to travel option and except for the insta-locking camps which don't currently exist in null (and my god it would be horrific if they did) nothing can catch them. 

[DaDutchDude]

I am really surprised people are complaining about bubble-immune inties in how hard it i to catch then instead of thinking how awesome the solo-Taranis will become again while giving the finger to the Sabre/Falcon faggots and other large gangs that fully rely on bubble + blob to kill stuff, while long-range point inties can now tackle for gangs in bubbled carebear hide-outs. Serisouly, how many people do you expect will suddenly go travel through 0.0 in inties that didn't travel uncought in covops before? I see perhasp 20% downside to 80% upside, especially to a corp like Agony, but you're all focussed on the downsides.

 

A lot of other stuff sounds really awesome as well. The deployable ship fitting thing sounds awesome for example.

 

Also the whole message of Seagull sounds intriguing. I wouldn't be surprised to see more dynamic systems that people can find / create gates to, much like WHs, but only in existence as long as people actually maintain it (i.e. protect the gate and actually live there) and probably with some fast depletable resources but also less valuable but long lasting resources, making it interesting to raid for short term profit for small groups who then move on, while larger groups can then move in and live here, while in times of war, they could be trapped in / locked out, loosing assets and such if they don't actually live there and protect it.

 

Also there are hints about actually influencing the 4 empires. Perhaps high-sec dwellers need to start to choose a side and it could have border shifting consequences, which would need to be balanced out to prevent empires from disappearing, so you'd need components from each empire LP stores to build their ships (would require all BPOs/BPCs to be changed) to make people want to be in the underdog empire, making their components more valuable. Still, this is a scary idea with the amount of manipulation people can do, so nothing like this will happen, but I wish it would.

 

Still, the thing I'm most interested in is how EVE will transform in the free to play era, because it will become a larger threat then it already is.

 

Edit: As an aside, it would be nice to have a bubble have 2 different effects: stopping a warp from starting, and ending a warp, where they could be switched off separately, so you could still be pulled out of warp in a bubble, but still be able to warp away from inside a bubble. I think that would probably also solve most of the problems people would have.

[Gizznitt]

I think interdiction nullified inties is terrible. 

 

And Sev, I usually get most of my inty kills using drag bubbles, where they foolishly warp into the bubble without using tacs.  Those are the targets I like to weed out.  I don't have any desire to setup insta-locking gate camps and gank inties that way, and much prefer to just nab the idiotic inty pilots scouting for their fleets thinking they are safe because they have a fleet a system behind them!  

 

I also posted a "no interdiction nullified inties thread" to GD on EveO

https://forums.eveon...631&find=unread

[Othran]

If it worries us then I'd love to hear what scarify thinks with his bubble camp

 

Seriously though, this is basically fly a cheap inty which removes nearly all risk from warping gate to gate if you fit a single stab. I know that sounds like lunacy but you look at lock times then you'll catch most of what you catch now, but without risk.

 

It will happen though as it isn't hard to do.

[Jeremiah Cole]

Updates:

• Replaced old images with hi res versions of:
  • Star gate construction
  • Station/Leviathan construction
  • Modular POS design*
  • Siphon Unit
  • Depot
  • Bastion Mode
  • SoE Ship Concepts
  • New certificate/Mastery system
  • Interbus Ship ID Tree
• Added hotlink to image of EVE Rubicon title (1920x1080).
• Title image now links to EVE Rubicon webpage.
• Link added to Twitch.TV

*Title based on rumor. Once more is known a factual title will be applied.

[Sever Aldaria]

After the changes, inties will be the go-to travel option and except for the insta-locking camps which don't currently exist in null (and my god it would be horrific if they did) nothing can catch them.

I don't really see this as a reason to have jimmies rustled over. If you want to gank inty travelers, you can do like Gillian and I do and remote Sebo an inty with an exequror that has 3 free mids anyway (I am already doing this). If you don't care about chasing down traveling inties (we look for fights, multiple targets, or slower or more expensive things to go for) then no big deal.

As glepp said, I don't catch inties with bubbles as is so unless them traveling easier somehow hurts me or it's my goal to make sure that no travelers get by, then it's not a big deal to me.

[Itkovian Beddict]

Sev you are seriously missing the point.  I don't care about killing inties, I care about nullsec being a dangerous place to go.

[Othran]

Sev you are seriously missing the point.  I don't care about killing inties, I care about nullsec being a dangerous place to go.

 

I think perhaps there might be a "small/smaller gang split" here lads.

 

IMHO the changes will be fairly trivial in Charlie (and Euro TZ). For Echo TZ then its not trivial (IMHO).

 

These things are best discussed in corp lads.

[Itkovian Beddict]

 

Sev you are seriously missing the point.  I don't care about killing inties, I care about nullsec being a dangerous place to go.

 

I think perhaps there might be a "small/smaller gang split" here lads.

 

IMHO the changes will be fairly trivial in Charlie (and Euro TZ). For Echo TZ then its not trivial (IMHO).

 

These things are best discussed in corp lads.

 

 

It's really got nothing to do with what Squad you're in - as I said I'm not interested in it because of missing out on some frigate kills, it's about nullsec as a whole.  Not sure why I need to discuss it in super-sekrit corp forums...

[Othran]

 

 

Sev you are seriously missing the point.  I don't care about killing inties, I care about nullsec being a dangerous place to go.

 

I think perhaps there might be a "small/smaller gang split" here lads.

 

IMHO the changes will be fairly trivial in Charlie (and Euro TZ). For Echo TZ then its not trivial (IMHO).

 

These things are best discussed in corp lads.

 

 

It's really got nothing to do with what Squad you're in - as I said I'm not interested in it because of missing out on some frigate kills, it's about nullsec as a whole.  Not sure why I need to discuss it in super-sekrit corp forums...

 

 

Well you don't of course but it does affect Echo (your lads?) more than most as there are less bodies to sebo it.

 

You know its a bad idea, its doubly bad on small gangs who want a FIGHT rather than a gank and that works on both sides of the fight.

 

More active TZs pickup traffic anyway.

[Sever Aldaria]

There's a lot of parroting of "set up an insta-locking gate camp" like it's an event or something you specifically undock to do. If catching inties that don't want to fight is so important then all I need to do is bring my logi out with a small gang to go roaming and Remote Sebo an inty when we come across a traveling inty that we care enough about to catch.

It's not a camp on a gate or a big ordeal. It's a single ship with 3 free mids that you can supplement a gang with. Most inties use tacs anyway that you can't catch with bubbles anyway.

I agree with DaDutch, this isn't something to get all upset about but think about how we can take advantage of it for pew pew.

[Ronat]

I'm with Dutch. The inty change could be awesome for us for solo or gangs. I can now take out my AB taranis and warp gate to gate without hiring a bubble cap ruining my day. Or we take out a fleet of combat inties and can wreck havoc on main rating systems for nullbears. We can cover a ton of space really fast. So if it does happen I'm taking out a fleet of taranis, crows, and claws to bag a carrier, T3s and BSs.

[Itkovian Beddict]

I'm not raging about it, I just think it's a bad idea.  I don't care about killing inties. <- I put that in bold, maybe someone will read it.  I just don't like it that before that change, people had to think a bit to travel in null, it was an inherently more dangerous place to go and there was a risk involved just  from going there.  Now, there isn't.  Maybe that's a good thing and will get people into null (won't complain about that!) but I think all it will do is reduce the risk of null and make it less distinct from lowsec in that respect.

 

I'm in Alpha Othran

[Itkovian Beddict]

By the way, I love the warp acceleration change.