15 replies to this topic

[Greygal]

We love feedback!

Great class, fun roam, will write more later

 

 

[Andy]

Overall fun roam, and magnificent fleet discipline and fc`ing!

 

Im blue to everything in Catch atm, so sat out the entire -A- engagement... *yawn*

 

Away from that, I had a great time

 

 

-Andy

[Blitz]

I had a blast in class and the roam was really awesome.. obviously a Skirmisher has all the fun in finding targtes and managing to hold them down and there's just no replacement for practise. Same goes for recon and I guess all the Skirmishers were grateful for the opportunity to fill this role and get some experience under their belts.

I had a bit of a "fight" with connectivity/comms as I wasn't at home but everything was still exciting.

 

Thanks again to the Agony Team, you guys are simply brilliant, keep it up.

[Othran]

Very impressed with student skirmishers. I've been on skirmish roams before and its tended to be pretty confusing/slow but I think the lower number of skirmishers this time helped a lot.

 

As an aside to PvP-U staff - maybe you could work out something that halves the number of student skirmishers on the roam, I suspect that'd mean 2 roams on consecutive nights/weekends which I know is a pain to sort out but I do think it'd be worthwhile for the students.

 

Not so impressed with the residents of North Curse. I was hoping for a bit more from them.

 

Couple of decent fights which I think could have gone slightly better given a little luck and timing.

 

Was fun. I'd do it again with the same FC and skirmishers

[voetius]

The skirmishers did well and a fun time was had by all. Nice catch on the ratting Rokh.

[Othran]

Nice catch on the ratting Rokh.

 

Mining rokh. Shitfit mining Rohk too

 

Bad the way his corpmates ignored him though when he was tackled for (IIRC) over 10 minutes

[Jheherrin]

Roam was great, even though I dropped out before the big fights.

I was trying to set myself up orbiting the gate when I had a 5yr old land on my lap and demand attention. I must have hit jump by mistake because next time i looked at the screen I was jumped through into range of an Oracle fleet and was sent home via clone express very shortly after.

I usually play (eve and others) when my kids are asleep in the evening, but these saturday morning roams are usually just getting interesting by the time they wake up, cue distractions. Kids don't understand what it means when they cost me 200M in ship+fittings +clone .

Regarding the skirmishers, for the most part the trainees sounded like pros. Job well done for the trainers and the trainees.

[Landrik]

The roam was loads of fun (as Agony roams tend to be) and I enjoy skirmishing as much as I thought I would.

 

I found the class really helpful, though it was a little heavy on the orbiting & spiraling part, which didn't come up very often during the roam.  I think I would have got more out of doing the gate camp exercise a couple more times under different conditions, to practice recon (using my own UI) and evading tackle.

[Xiao Sishen]

I seem to have run out of steam and time to finish writing up my review/feedback for the skirmishing class. I'll try and finish it this coming weekend and get it formatted for a forum post and easily readable in the thread. In the meanwhile, here's a link to the working document on SkyDrive. I'd rather toss up a draft, than delay another 4-5 days getting a post in.

 

SkyDrive Link

[Jeremiah Cole]

Holy hell, talk about feedback.

[Greygal]

That's some good feedback  A number of your points are things we're aware of (such as the issues with the screen-shot-based recon practice which we continue to improve on - you should have seen what we did in the first class!) and others.  I'll hold off on responding fully till your final version is posted  But it sounds like you had fun and ultimately that's the most important thing

[Quest]

I seem to have run out of steam and time to finish writing up my review/feedback for the skirmishing class. I'll try and finish it this coming weekend and get it formatted for a forum post and easily readable in the thread. In the meanwhile, here's a link to the working document on SkyDrive. I'd rather toss up a draft, than delay another 4-5 days getting a post in.

 

SkyDrive Link

Bloody awesome! I can't wait for you to finish it all.

 

Just one comment, regarding what to do in a fight. The first thing unless there are other skirmishers doing exactly that is to go to the neighbouring system and report of any reinforcements.

 

Another good idea is to go through the gate where the fight is at and try to point the struglers. For example in a -A- fight pointing and harrasing Scimis on the other side of the gate would have been useful, not to mention that you probably could have finished them off as they were all jumping out in structure (oh the benefits of the hindsight...this is really FC's error ie. me, than yours).

 

And finally, you are spot on, provided all the bases are covered staying safe on grid at a tac/tam it is always extremely useful. I don't know if you noticed, but when I went down I warped to you in my pod

[ToranBrades]

Hey guys,

thanks for the feedback overall, specifically in regards to the class which was more in my responsibility than the roam

Your feedback basically points out many points where we are torn ourselves - if you go one route, you can't go another etc...
e.g. regarding "Do class on one day, then give us a week to practice before the roam" (think that was Blitz) - this had been our initial plan when devising the class, but then it would have meant that people basically would have to set two days/partial weekends away for EVE, not just one of them - harder to manage for many potential students. Not to mention that integrating into Agony internal roams would be even harder (obviously we fly differently during our roams than we fly during classes).

So what do we do there? Set it up in a way to give students more time to practice, but severely limiting who can attend, and we would also not be able to provide the practice environment actually to them? Or make them jump in at the deep end and try to assist them swimming?
While it was a hard choice, we went for the latter, trying to help wherever possible. It's not perfect, but I think the other way would be even more chaotic/harder for most students...

As for the recon practice: Yeah, we'll try to make it a project to further improve the screenie selection. I personally never really minded the "variety" in styles in there, but obviously it needs to be good for the *students* I don't think we'll hand the pics out "before giving the recon" - as that kinda "stress" factor is part of the idea. You're supposed to practice some steps in your mind *at that moment*, even though the overview might not be exactly yours. So what? Ya should be able to give a recon on *any* computer *g* There is no need to think "Dang, I passed it" or "Dang, I f*cked up" - it's for practice, and was actually supposed to be practice for each of you, not just the one that "got the pic".
But as I said, yeah, selection of screens will be worked on!

Lecture vs. questions - I think that was mostly Xiao's comment. Hm - I dunno if there was no room given for details/questions/comments, actually this was what I was asking for? Of course I went by the structure to be able to say "Ok, topic at hand - fitting/recon/whatever - ya guys read it, now are there questions/remarks?". I actually had less people pipe up than usual/than I expected, but there's only so much you can force ppl into asking.
Did you feel there generally was not sufficient time provided for "Q&A" stuff? The "discussion of nuances/variants" etc. is usually something coming up upon questions asked by students, otherwise I could go on about Skirmishing for hours (believe me, or ask others).

The gate practical: We used to have two dictors actually allowing twice the "throughput" with different combinations etc - we would not have the man power to set up multiple camps, even though we came up with that as a general great idea already.
But I will happily try to get those two camps set up again in the future - I know that "sitting on a gate" is only soooo entertaining.

Re: the 1on1 practical later - that's always the point where I want things to happen "more" and "better". I think the main problems are "late in the class part" (people will have been on for hours by then) and "limited time".
What I definitely want to do again next time is give a few short ideas of what you guys can practice then - obviously the sparring teams will not be limited to "just tackling", but can also engage in "catching on gates", DSCAN practice, following someone just warping out while you land on grid or whatever else comes to your mind. The spiralling part on the Oracle is just supposed to be "available" for everybody, and everybody probably should have done it a couple times succesfully (IMO), as many people *can* tackle a sniper, but not everybody does it in the proper time while also not dying. They often run from you, and if you can shave off a couple seconds, you're improving your chances
But obviously, I want you to practice *a couple different things*, not just a single one.

 

Overall, I'm happy that many of you enjoyed it, but don't think that criticism isn't welcome either. Now, go out and practice that kinda stuff - IMO it can help (among other things) to make you a better pilot for all fleets, and not just in the skirmishing role.

 

Cheers,

Toran

[Bam Stroker]

I had a good time even though I had to pike early. Thanks for fleet once again, Agony! o7

[Druur]

Skirmishers...

You did good on this roam.

Don't worry about not being able to practice for this roam, or making mistakes - this was a /class/ roam after all, for you to practice the theory you had learned just a day before. And we all could hear the increasing confidence in your recon reports.

It was an honor to fly with you.

[Druur]

I seem to have run out of steam and time to finish writing up my review/feedback for the skirmishing class. I'll try and finish it this coming weekend and get it formatted for a forum post and easily readable in the thread. In the meanwhile, here's a link to the working document on SkyDrive. I'd rather toss up a draft, than delay another 4-5 days getting a post in.

SkyDrive Link

Quest has a couple of good ideas of what to do as a Skirmisher during a fleet flight - things which I wish I had known two years ago At the same time, as Skirmisher pilot, you are expected to be able to think on your feet, without direct orders from the FC. I remember one fight where, lacking other orders, I ended up harassing a Falcon, just so that he'd use one of his ECM mods on me instead of anybody else. Your idea of providing a bounce-TAC (TAM?) is even better.

* Note to Agony: "What to do while the main fleet is fighting" definitely should be part of the class syllabus.

A comment regarding d-scan: it is my opinion that d-scan is not something which can be fully mastered in a day. Or even week. It is something you have to bring forward and practice every day if you are serious about being a skirmisher, or cov-ops scout.

Do that, and one day you'll be in a situation where you just accidentalied a missioning battle cruiser.

Edit: Shameless self-promotion: http://hazardousgood...5/the-hunt.html .

Edit 2: My actual write-up of this roam. I have written better, but nonetheless: enjoy! http://hazardousgood...one-better.html.