Jump to content


Photo

[CLOSED] PVP-BOMBERS - July 26 - 1600 EVT


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
125 replies to this topic

#101 Lukure

Lukure
  • PipPip

Posted 26 July 2008 - 01:03 AM

Going to have to pull out of this class. Hope to take the next one.
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?46434]BASIC-0610071900[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74643.last]WOLFPACKS-053120081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74653]ADVANCED-061420081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78237.0]FLYBYS-2206081600[/link]

#102 Vulpinus

Vulpinus
  • Pip

Posted 26 July 2008 - 01:46 AM

Been unable to do the prereq. courses (I blinked and missed the PVP-Basic announcement ) so will have to withdraw. Hope to be qualified in time for the next presentation.
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link]

#103 Alexei Riganeau

Alexei Riganeau
  • PipPip

Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:33 AM

It's my own fault for being new to the test server, I guess, but until Rells sent out the course materials I hadn't realized that Singularity skill development doesn't track with Tranquility. So my Tranquility character is all trained up and my Singularity character doesn't know which end of a bomb launcher the boom comes out of. So I need to withdraw from this class and just make sure I have my Singularity ducks in a row next time around. Good luck to all who are participating.
[link=http://agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70998.0]BASIC -2604081900[/link]
[link=http://agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74643.0]WOLFPACKS-053120081600[/link]

#104 Brantok

Brantok

Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:55 AM

Can't make it. Stuck working. Blow something up for me.
Just because something's impossible doesn't mean it can't be done.

#105 Carenthor Loon

Carenthor Loon

Posted 26 July 2008 - 03:11 PM

Bah, my stupid computer has gone tits up...won't be able to make it I'm afraid, as the one I'm using temporarily is far too slow. :-( Might be a good excuse for me to upgrade though... :-P
EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in
CCP Wrangler


#106 Buddha

Buddha

Posted 26 July 2008 - 04:49 PM

I have been roaming this earth for 40+ years, I am a somewhat prolific IT Professional and I am a father and a husband. Do you think I could figure out Eve Time versus my local time? This is smack dab in the middle of my Daddy Day Care Saturday where mamma gets 3 hours off the leash! Have fun. Work out all the kinks in the inaugural Bomber class and I will be one of the first to sign up for Bombers ver2.0! ps - I did manage to get set up on the test server for the first time in four years and I am all ready with ships and mods for the next bomber run. Go AGONY!!!

Posted Image
god has no religion...

AGONY - Teaching you everything you know about PvP but not everything WE know.


Courses Completed
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75509]BASIC - 2106080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78234]WOLFPACKS-0628120080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]


#107 Joesph Frost

Joesph Frost

Posted 26 July 2008 - 05:15 PM

I am unable to attend this class. RL has come knocking on my door. Sorry guys.
Joesph Frost (AGONY)
Ensign 5.30.08

Graduated [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74641]BASIC-1705081600[/link]
Graduated [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74643]WOLFPACKS-053120081600[/link]
Enrolled in [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74653]ADVANCED-061420081600[/link]
Graduated [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136.0]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link]

#108 Myrtha Avorenne

Myrtha Avorenne

Posted 26 July 2008 - 05:41 PM

Do you think I could figure out Eve Time versus my local time?


There are quite some utilities out in the web, but I found this
http://www.timeandda...ck/meeting.html
to be the nicest and easiest to understand web form, as it does not overwhelm you with too much information, and if you are traveling, you can even see what time EVE is at your destination, while still seeing your home time zone.

Myrtha Avorenne
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?64508.post]BASIC-2302081900[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70928.post]WOLFPACKS-041920081900[/link]


#109 Buddha

Buddha

Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:15 PM

For the KM Whores - here's one Astarte that "wishes he didn't"... 2008.07.26 20:56:00 Victim: Axxi Corp: InPanic Inc. Alliance: Skunk-Works Faction: NONE Destroyed: Astarte System: 93PI-4 Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 16466 Involved parties: Name: Zappapapa II Security: 2.1 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Dominix Weapon: Ogre II Damage Done: 3931 Name: Meridius Dex Security: -0.8 Corp: Foundation Alliance: Sons of Tangra Faction: NONE Ship: Purifier Weapon: Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Damage Done: 1213 Name: foxische Security: 4.8 Corp: Perkone Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 989 Name: Cosmic Buddha (laid the final blow) Security: -1.9 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 933 Name: Yorick Downe Security: 5.0 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Hound Weapon: Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile Damage Done: 908 Name: Venatoris Portucalis Security: 3.3 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Purifier Weapon: Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Damage Done: 868 Name: Song Xian Security: 0.7 Corp: The Grind Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Hound Weapon: Devastator Cruise Missile Damage Done: 805 Name: Sunja Lu'Aras Security: 4.4 Corp: Ninmu Seijaku Alliance: Big Bang Quantum Faction: NONE Ship: Purifier Weapon: Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Damage Done: 789 Name: Thor Wolf Security: -2.3 Corp: Shiva Alliance: Morsus Mihi Faction: NONE Ship: Nemesis Weapon: Guristas Cataclysm Cruise Missile Damage Done: 768 Name: macH eoN Security: 3.1 Corp: biG macH industrieS Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 756 Name: Loash Security: 0.6 Corp: Decorum Inc Alliance: Tygris Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 641 Name: ElvisLives Security: 5.0 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Purifier Weapon: Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Damage Done: 582 Name: Rells Security: 2.2 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Purifier Weapon: Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Damage Done: 529 Name: Vissuddha Security: 5.0 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Nemesis Weapon: Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Damage Done: 470 Name: Jno Aubrey Security: 4.9 Corp: Royal Navy Industries Alliance: CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 453 Name: Pappy Stirling Security: 2.1 Corp: Hadean Drive Yards Alliance: Archaean Cooperative Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 420 Name: Caldak Security: 2.9 Corp: Man Evolved Alliance: ReZZerecteD AlckemisTs Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Damage Done: 382 Name: Solar Chase Security: 4.6 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 294 Name: Fyfe Security: 5.1 Corp: Free Corp Alliance: Liberty Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 279 Name: Actinous Security: 5.0 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 228 Name: Larg Kellein Security: 5.0 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Manticore Weapon: Wrath Cruise Missile Damage Done: 228 Name: Mortis Aguila Security: 2.3 Corp: Lionsgate Ionic Dispersion Alliance: Abyss Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Nemesis Weapon: 'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I Damage Done: 0 Name: ALEXICE Security: 5.0 Corp: Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Alliance: Red Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Unknown Weapon: ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Damage Done: 0 Name: Matt Andrews Security: 1.8 Corp: Agony Unleashed Alliance: Agony Empire Faction: NONE Ship: Hound Weapon: Cruise Missile Launcher I Damage Done: 0 Destroyed items: Capacitor Control Circuit I, Qty: 2 Damage Control II Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 3045 (Cargo) Cap Booster 800 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Qty: 4 Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 366 Dropped items: Cap Booster 800, Qty: 8 (Cargo) Warp Disruptor II Hammerhead II, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Heavy Ion Blaster II Sensor Booster II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II, Qty: 2 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Qty: 2 Scan Resolution Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 2000 (Cargo) Federation Navy Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 54

Posted Image
god has no religion...

AGONY - Teaching you everything you know about PvP but not everything WE know.


Courses Completed
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75509]BASIC - 2106080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78234]WOLFPACKS-0628120080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]


#110 Meridius Dex

Meridius Dex

Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:17 PM

So, no other kills then? Thanks, guys.
Posted Image

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?68000]BASIC-2103081800[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70928]WOLFPACKS-041920081900[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74653]ADVANCED-061420081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100002]FLEET COMMAND - 1512080200[/link]

#111 Teralya

Teralya

Posted 27 July 2008 - 12:06 AM

There was that Broadsword... but not posted yet

Teralyasignature_zpse92f869a.jpg

BASIC-1512071900 Pilot: Teralya
WOLFPACKS-020220081900 Pilot: Teralya
ADVANCED-050320081900 Pilot: Teralya
CAPSUPPORT-070620081600 Pilot: Sunja Lu'Aras
FLYBYS-2206081600 Pilot: Teralya
BOMBERS-072620081600 Pilot: Sunja Lu'Aras

INTERMEDIATE-20140315 Pilot: Sunja Lu'Aras


#112 Buddha

Buddha

Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:06 AM


Do you think I could figure out Eve Time versus my local time?


There are quite some utilities out in the web, but I found this
http://www.timeandda...ck/meeting.html
to be the nicest and easiest to understand web form, as it does not overwhelm you with too much information, and if you are traveling, you can even see what time EVE is at your destination, while still seeing your home time zone.

Myrtha Avorenne

Thanks Myrtha. It was supposed to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek as I know damn well the time difference but didn't put two and two together...that's what happens when you're busy wrangling a 1 year old.

Due to the issues encountered on the Sisi server, I was able to catch up to the gang after all. Now where is that Broadsword kill?!

Posted Image
god has no religion...

AGONY - Teaching you everything you know about PvP but not everything WE know.


Courses Completed
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75509]BASIC - 2106080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78234]WOLFPACKS-0628120080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]


#113 Ecatherina W

Ecatherina W

Posted 27 July 2008 - 07:01 AM

The reply form seem to be down, so I will post my feedback here. The class was a mess, both in the theory part and in the practical part. I have never before been to an Agony class this disorganized and seemingly unprepared. This is a surprise to me, since I know from experience just how much Rells uses bombers and loves them. Part of the mess was in the lack of preparations possible to make. The materials were not available until shortly before the class, there was no real indication of what skills would be needed where and what setups would be suggested and even the Agony pilots, Rells included, did not have their ships ready on the live server. The class was not, in its present shape and form, ready for the public IMHO. There was too much time spent testing effects on Sisi that should have been known. I would strongly recommend some fitting guidelines for both Sisi and Tranq to be included, as well as some basic knowledge of covert ops/cloaked ships tactics, since covert ops is not a requirement for the class, but the skills may be needed anyway. Going out after the class, the stealth bomber pilots seemed disorganized and unruly. It was described as herding cats, but the most undisciplined of the pilots all had Agony tickers. I cannot count the number of times pilots were uncloaked by carelsss classmates, but it was a lot. Adding to that the fact that lag was pretty bad (at least for me), then it was not really a fun hunt either. The loss of a phobos and a dominix to good probing skills - and no-one noticing a probe on scan - was to me a very defining moment. What happened to the disciplined and good pilots that Agony normally are? And then one of the students lost his cloak while sitting around with a large gang coming in. He was of course shipkilled and podded fast. But instead of helping him back to the gang, he was told off for not remembering that ec-p8r was camped by 450 BoB. What happened to the normally so helpful and caring pilots that would be at hand to get him back to rejoin the class? He was not an old hand, just a random student who got unlucky at 4-5AM his time. I am sorry, guys, you are not going to like my feedback. But you know me better than to expect a pad on the back and a "Great job!" when it wasn't. I strongly support Agony for teaching Basic and Wolfpack, but I think perhaps the concept of 50 alphastriking stealthbombers have lured you into making a class, that wasn't really ready and wasn't really all that well prepared. I think that a smaller class would have been a better idea - and with the pricetag attached to this class combined with the price of the ships and gear, even more so. I know I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 mill in ships, gear, ammo and class fee. 50 persons doing that is a nice big mothership, I think? Do I know more about the use of a bomber now than I did before: Hmm. Not really, since the main ideas to be taught about bombing was a failure on Sisi. Would I recommend this class to others: No
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10650]BASIC-0302071900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13238]WOLFPACKS-2402071800[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?35797]FLYBYS-2707072000[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?49388]COVOPS-201020072100[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70929]ADVANCED-050320081900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]PVP-BOMBERS-072620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?81123]DRUNKEN-PVP-1207081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100002]FLEET COMMAND - 1512080200[/link]

***** Lucifer's Handmaiden *****

Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish - because we DGAF!

[link=http://www.bbq-alliance.com/forum/index.php]BBQ Forum About Everything Eve[/link]

#114 foxische

foxische

Posted 27 July 2008 - 11:55 AM

hope the next one will have more succes.I personally did a lot of mistakes, but the most are due to not clearly understanding where to align and what distance to keep...
BASIC-1509071900 graduated
WOLFPACKS-2411070001 graduated
BOMBERS-072620081600 graduated

#115 macH eoN

macH eoN
  • PipPip

Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:02 PM

Bombers Class Feedback: Whilst understanding some of the comments made by Ecatherina I do disagree with the main tone. I consider myself to be raw, inexperienced and sometimes stupid in the ways of PVP`ing, yet I have gained something out of every class I have attended so far, and always consider them great value for money. Yes the materials were only available a short time before the class - yet I still managed to set up both types of ship on live and singularity, having to make only one change, that of adding a microwarpdrive. This all gained from the material supplied. Yes the class started late - RL events do happen that can have an impact on these classes, but it was not really that bad. Im sure those involved will learn from it. Is the class ready for the public, I would have to say yes. We were certainly given all of the information required. For me finding out why some of the bombs were having no effect on the test server was not as important as learning the techniques, but if the game has changed in its mechanics I`m sure that is of grave concern to those running a bombers course, and therefore understand why we diverged slightly. Did I learn the basics of what to do with my bomber, thats a yes. Were we taught about avoidence techniques again thats a yes. Though you would`nt have thought so at one point. :dodge: perhaps a practical before hand would be a great idea, as stated I`m not sure how much time people may have had in cov-ops ships. Mine is very very limited. This may have been a factor. On the main point, about the class generally. I would have to say that at times it did look like the class had`nt done basics or wolfpacks. But who`s fault is this, it must certainly be ours as individual students. I would have to agree with Rells that we must start thinking for ourselves, its the only way we will grow. The main problem I have is very limited experience so I can only draw on what happens in class. I would therefore like to see Rells (or others) more verbose not less (thats in the class materials as well). Explainations about the pros and cons of different things are an important learning tool for those with little or no experience. As to telling offs. To me perhaps the main problem is one of perception of how Rells makes his point. I am sure that when we are chastised by him for making an error or mistake that its not personal, he his simply trying to make us all understand and learn from it. A very hard task sometimes :D but he is ownly trying to drum into us the instinct to survive and win as any good General would. As for the comments about what happened to the disciplined and good pilots that Agony normally are. Im sure they can reply to that. My own view is that with Agony expanding as it has been recently there are going to be pilots that are perhaps not as experienced as others in certain roles on certain courses - they too are learning is that so bad ? Dont loose sight of the fact that a lot can be learned from all situations good and bad, courses good and bad. The important point is that you do learn!!! For me changes made to the next Bombers course could include an article on advanced counting i.e. 1,2,3.4 etc. ;) but other than that it seems fine.

#116 Buddha

Buddha

Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:41 PM

Overall it was a blast. It was a bit disorganized but it was the first run of the class so some kinks are to be expected. As far as the comments on the Agony pilots - well you just don't know do you? It's easy to stand on the outside and question others but until you actually know what happened, I'd strongly suggest keeping the negative assumptions to yourself. Agony pilots recognized probes in the air (this one did anyway and I'm sure others did). I spent at least 15 minutes running from the prober in my Phobos (not intended to be part of the class; was simply hitching a ride to X-7 with the class) all the while avoiding the rush-out-decloak tactics the enemy was deploying at the gate within 5 km of my OTHER character in the class. I made the fatal mistake of warping back to an existing BM after making 10 or so new ones. That is MY fault; not a question of Agony Pilot's ability - so meet me in space if you got something to say about it :amazed: While I would agree the course could have used some tightening up before public presentation, I don't think it's as gloom and doom as some made it out to be. It's a game FFS! People spend a LOT of RL time preparing so cut them some slack. Do it yourself if you can do a better job.

Posted Image
god has no religion...

AGONY - Teaching you everything you know about PvP but not everything WE know.


Courses Completed
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75509]BASIC - 2106080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78234]WOLFPACKS-0628120080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]


#117 Ecatherina W

Ecatherina W

Posted 27 July 2008 - 05:19 PM

Overall it was a blast. It was a bit disorganized but it was the first run of the class so some kinks are to be expected.

As far as the comments on the Agony pilots - well you just don't know do you? It's easy to stand on the outside and question others but until you actually know what happened, I'd strongly suggest keeping the negative assumptions to yourself.

Agony pilots recognized probes in the air (this one did anyway and I'm sure others did). I spent at least 15 minutes running from the prober in my Phobos (not intended to be part of the class; was simply hitching a ride to X-7 with the class) all the while avoiding the rush-out-decloak tactics the enemy was deploying at the gate within 5 km of my OTHER character in the class. I made the fatal mistake of warping back to an existing BM after making 10 or so new ones. That is MY fault; not a question of Agony Pilot's ability - so meet me in space if you got something to say about it :amazed:

While I would agree the course could have used some tightening up before public presentation, I don't think it's as gloom and doom as some made it out to be. It's a game FFS! People spend a LOT of RL time preparing so cut them some slack. Do it yourself if you can do a better job.


Yes, I do know. Not only have I flown with Agony gangs since Feb. 2007, but I have been in Agony * grins and points to 5 ribbons * I do not blame anyone for being probed out by Gobbins, but I do believe I tried to say that he is a bloody good prober.

I do remember hearing on vent "I don't not see any probes" followed by "Oh, fuck, there IS a phantom". Dunno who said it, as it was in the heat of the moment shortly after Bamar lost his ship.

I was in that bunch of stealthbombers evading on the gate and I know that it was problematic - and I do understand that you were dualboxing, which is always a problem. Don't think for a second that I am blaming you for losing your ship. I feel rotten about the fact that we were not there to help you and Bamar. Even suicidally, it would have felt better. But that is a call for the FC to make and I am not second-guessing that.

I do know that you are rather new to Agony, so are a lot of the others who were in that fleet. Maybe it is not a great idea to try to keep 30 stealthbombers cloaked while orbitting a gate? I don't know if anyone does that normally, but what I saw was that it wasn't working very well. People kept uncloaking, setting off others and suddenly there was 10 uncloaked out of 30. I am pretty sure it works in a smaller gang of SB pilots who are used to the tecnique. In fact I have been in Agony gangs of stealthbombers + interdictor where we managed to do that pretty well.

I know it is a game. I also know that RL fucks with all of us. But that does not make my critique less valid. Remember, this is feedback with the intention of helping you guys actually make the class better - and as Rells said, if you cannot say it in public, then... Well, I don't need to hide who I am and what I say. I stand by my words.

I am just saying that this class was not done with the grace, style and eloquence that I am used to associating with Agony. Something is wrong - don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.

PS: As to doing it myself - well, I have taught Basic with Agony ;) and I do teach my own alliance members.
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10650]BASIC-0302071900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13238]WOLFPACKS-2402071800[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?35797]FLYBYS-2707072000[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?49388]COVOPS-201020072100[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70929]ADVANCED-050320081900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]PVP-BOMBERS-072620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?81123]DRUNKEN-PVP-1207081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100002]FLEET COMMAND - 1512080200[/link]

***** Lucifer's Handmaiden *****

Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish - because we DGAF!

[link=http://www.bbq-alliance.com/forum/index.php]BBQ Forum About Everything Eve[/link]

#118 Buddha

Buddha

Posted 27 July 2008 - 05:57 PM

And what I DIDN'T mention in my previous post is that your points were valid indeed (about the class presentation) but it felt a bit personal at times so I impulsively felt compelled to reply. I did hear you say on Vent that the enemy prober was good (not long before I landed on a handful of his gang mates he left at one of my spots)! :D I did know you were in Agony previously but I didn't know you taught too. You obviously have more insight than I as to what it takes to teach so I remove any stink of personal attack in that regard ;) /me makes note of that Gobbins fella for future run-ins... ps - As far as shooting the messenger, if they're not blue in my OV I'm mashin' my "F" keys!

Posted Image
god has no religion...

AGONY - Teaching you everything you know about PvP but not everything WE know.


Courses Completed
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75509]BASIC - 2106080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78234]WOLFPACKS-0628120080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]


#119 Ecatherina W

Ecatherina W

Posted 27 July 2008 - 10:04 PM

And what I DIDN'T mention in my previous post is that your points were valid indeed (about the class presentation) but it felt a bit personal at times so I impulsively felt compelled to reply. I did hear you say on Vent that the enemy prober was good (not long before I landed on a handful of his gang mates he left at one of my spots)! :D

I did know you were in Agony previously but I didn't know you taught too. You obviously have more insight than I as to what it takes to teach so I remove any stink of personal attack in that regard ;)

/me makes note of that Gobbins fella for future run-ins...

ps - As far as shooting the messenger, if they're not blue in my OV I'm mashin' my "F" keys!


No worries, Buddha, I only co-taught one class and XOed a couple. You were not around then, AFAIK. Teaching was the reason I joined Agony :P

Of course the remarks could/would sound personal to you (although not intended so) and I am glad you are defending your corp and your CEO. That's the way it should be. I am sorry about your loss, btw. It hurts to lose a new and shiny HIC.... my first only got one kill before I lost it to "pilot error" :sad:
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10650]BASIC-0302071900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13238]WOLFPACKS-2402071800[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?35797]FLYBYS-2707072000[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?49388]COVOPS-201020072100[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70929]ADVANCED-050320081900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]PVP-BOMBERS-072620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?81123]DRUNKEN-PVP-1207081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100002]FLEET COMMAND - 1512080200[/link]

***** Lucifer's Handmaiden *****

Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish - because we DGAF!

[link=http://www.bbq-alliance.com/forum/index.php]BBQ Forum About Everything Eve[/link]

#120 Solwolf

Solwolf
  • PipPip

Posted 28 July 2008 - 12:54 AM

Well there was one cool thing that was covered in the course materials and during the course, but it didn't work on the test server. I've actually tried it on the live server and it didn't work there either. I don't want to say exactly what it was, because it'll give away part of the course. ;) Anyway, anyone want to test it on the live server too to see if it really doesn't work live?
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74641.0]BASIC-1705081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74643]WOLFPACKS-053120081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?74653.60]ADVANCED-061420081600[/link]
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]

#121 Matt Andrews

Matt Andrews

Posted 28 July 2008 - 09:04 AM

Thank you Cath and everybody for your feedback.

I agree with some of Ecatherina points, tho not all of them.
I disagree on the one of helping a student that decloaked and then got killed by Tri nano gang.
With the situation that accured in 0-N there there where couple of choises to make:
1) Do not help and let the student die, 1 bomber lost.
2) Order to attack, with the enemy fleet composition and our firepower we could kill half of the hostile gang, maybe less and loose 50-70% of our fleet. I would be more than happy to take this fight, but we would not save the student anyway.
3) Order the student to recloak and align to a celestial object and then warp out if he get decloaked. This is what should be done in my opinion. Cloaked evasion is extreamly difficult with 20+ nano ships that try to decloak you.


While flying a stealth bomber you have to be on your guard all the time. You have to have the awareness what and how fast can get you killed. That requires experience.

This is a class that requires actualy a lot of focus and situational awareness. This is mostly learned in PVP Advanced, which i think should also be a requirement for PVP Bombers class. You, starting from wolfpacks and then through Advanced and Bombers class, cant just blindly follow orders anymore. We expect that you will also think on your own :! .
BASIC-1512071900 | WOLFPACKS-041920081900 | FLYBYS-2206081600 | ADVANCED-050320081900 | BOMBERS-072620081600

#122 Ecatherina W

Ecatherina W

Posted 28 July 2008 - 10:05 AM

Thank you Cath and everybody for your feedback.

I agree with some of Ecatherina points, tho not all of them.
I disagree on the one of helping a student that decloaked and then got killed by Tri nano gang.
With the situation that accured in 0-N there there where couple of choises to make:
1) Do not help and let the student die, 1 bomber lost.
2) Order to attack, with the enemy fleet composition and our firepower we could kill half of the hostile gang, maybe less and loose 50-70% of our fleet. I would be more than happy to take this fight, but we would not save the student anyway.
3) Order the student to recloak and align to a celestial object and then warp out if he get decloaked. This is what should be done in my opinion. Cloaked evasion is extreamly difficult with 20+ nano ships that try to decloak you.


While flying a stealth bomber you have to be on your guard all the time. You have to have the awareness what and how fast can get you killed. That requires experience.

This is a class that requires actualy a lot of focus and situational awareness. This is mostly learned in PVP Advanced, which i think should also be a requirement for PVP Bombers class. You, starting from wolfpacks and then through Advanced and Bombers class, cant just blindly follow orders anymore. We expect that you will also think on your own :! .




Matt, you misunderstand me. I am not second-guessing Rells decision for the group to remain cloaked and not help. I do think that someone should have put his/her stealthbomber in a safespot w. cloak on while morally and verbally on vent guiding Caldak back to the fleet with his secondary stealthbomber. I would have done it myself, if I had a safespot in the system - but it requires to be in a separate vent channel with Caldak to talk him through the process of getting back and it requires word from covert ops pilots in the nearby systems. Normally, according to my experience flying with Agony classes, this is done.

Btw, PVP Advanced is not a requirement for PVP Bombers.

Kath
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10650]BASIC-0302071900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13238]WOLFPACKS-2402071800[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?35797]FLYBYS-2707072000[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?49388]COVOPS-201020072100[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70929]ADVANCED-050320081900[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT-070620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]PVP-BOMBERS-072620081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?81123]DRUNKEN-PVP-1207081600[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100002]FLEET COMMAND - 1512080200[/link]

***** Lucifer's Handmaiden *****

Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish - because we DGAF!

[link=http://www.bbq-alliance.com/forum/index.php]BBQ Forum About Everything Eve[/link]

#123 Buddha

Buddha

Posted 28 July 2008 - 11:19 PM



This is mostly learned in PVP Advanced, which i think should also be a requirement for PVP Bombers class.


Btw, PVP Advanced is not a requirement for PVP Bombers.

Kath

I think Matt was stating that he feels Advanced SHOULD be a prerequisite; not that it already is. I would tend to agree.

Good feedback all!

Posted Image
god has no religion...

AGONY - Teaching you everything you know about PvP but not everything WE know.


Courses Completed
[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75509]BASIC - 2106080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78234]WOLFPACKS-0628120080100[/link]

[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS-072620081600[/link]


#124 Jno Aubrey

Jno Aubrey

Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:08 PM

I'd like to add my 3 isk (inflation) worth. First, I learned a great deal about bombs and bombing that I did not know. Unfortunately, our experience on the test server did not match the prior testing that Agony had done to determine the various tactics that we were taught, and there are obviously some open questions about whether these were bugs, stealth changes, or a group halucination. This certainly isn't the fault of Agony instructors - this is a game and I don't expect the instructor to re-validate all tactics every time a class is given. As a result, the class ended up doing some testing out of necessity, and Rells had to call and end to this segment. I do agree with a previous poster who recommended that PvP-Advanced be a pre-requisite for this class. I would go so far as to suggest requiring the CovOps class as well. The "cat-herding" nature of the class was due to the students' lack of focus, not due to the structure of the class. Maybe just requiring that students have attended at least 3 or 4 agony classes of any sort would be sufficient to provide more discipline. Regarding the Keystone Kops process of getting 30-40 stealth bombers to cloak on a gate, I would suggest that perhaps orbiting at 5km is a little tight for that many ships - the larger the orbit radius the more "surface area" the class has to spread apart. It will take some trial and error to find the right distance for "X" number of ships, but perhaps starting at 10km next time might work better. Rells, I'll bet there is a formula to be discovered . . . :amazed: Regarding the class material, I had plenty of time to read them over more than once before the class, and I felt they provided a good overview while lacking in detail. Specifially I would have liked to see sample fittings for each ship, and suggestions on the kinds of modules we ought to have sitting in Nonni before the class starts. No problem on the test server fittings, since everything is available in the SOE station for 100 isk so we can fit on the fly. Two areas that I felt were neglected in the class: 1) Cloaked evasion maneuvers. Luckily we didn't need to do any of this except for the poor sod who decloaked himself (and he just needed to run!). Again, I would suggest requiring CovOps class as pre-requisite, and cover such maneuvers in that class. With the two-server setup for this class, there is a lot of material to cover and perhaps this belongs in the CovOps class. 2) Tactical bookmarking for bombers. This was covered only indirectly, with Rells referencing his alignment and on-grid warp-out BM's for the bombing portion. I'm not sure if there are additional considerations to BM's for stealth bombers - if so I would have liked to have covered them. Would I recommend this class to others? Yes, if they have taken the abovementioned classes first. Will I take it again as an alumnus? Yes, at the first opportunity! This first-ever class was a little rough around the edges and ran into some speed bumps, but overall was a lot of fun and a good learning experience. I am looking forward to joining further classes as the material is revised and matured.
Classes Taken (Galen Naranek or Jno Aubrey):
|[link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?9181]BASIC[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10735]WOLFPACKS[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?49388]COVOPS[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?70929]ADVANCED[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75136]CAPSUPPORT[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?78237]FLYBYS[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?80228]BOMBERS[/link] | [link=http://www.agony-unleashed.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?102488]A&W TURBO[/link]|

#125 Teralya

Teralya

Posted 01 August 2008 - 07:41 PM

Too bad that there wasn't a CovOps class in almost a year now... :dodge: Otherwise I would agree on the prereqs for the bombers class. At least Basic, Wolfpacks and Advanced and maybe even one or two Basic/Wolfpack as Alumni, so that at least the fleet maneuvers and communications are well known. Talking over recon reports is really really really a no-go, that could get the class killed. Although I was close to falling asleep while we were at that gate, cloaked and waiting for that nano gang to leave the area, I tried to listen to recon reports and thus keep track of the hostile gang. At least I used the time to get several BM sets up to 600km from the gate 8) I'm not sure if I could recommend the class, maybe I have to come along as Alumni. My expectation where a bit higher after reading the course materials. I was also a little disappointed that several pilots came unprepared for the TQ part. Even Rells wasn't nowhere near Nonni and didn't have a bomber ready. I can understand that his RL takes alot of time currently, but I don't think that in more than a month since the class was announced there was no opportunity to get a bomber to Nonni. If so, I would at least ask a corp member or alumni to get me a ship ready in Nonni. I would have helped gladly and I think even Jenina would :P And for non-Agonys not being prepared due to them being unsure of what to fit, please follow the suggestion of adding some fitting tips (for this class at least) to the wiki. Or put some "required modules to bring" part to the course material, like for the Basic class. Not everyone is experienced in PvP or fitting a bomber, so this might be a great help for everyone.

Teralyasignature_zpse92f869a.jpg

BASIC-1512071900 Pilot: Teralya
WOLFPACKS-020220081900 Pilot: Teralya
ADVANCED-050320081900 Pilot: Teralya
CAPSUPPORT-070620081600 Pilot: Sunja Lu'Aras
FLYBYS-2206081600 Pilot: Teralya
BOMBERS-072620081600 Pilot: Sunja Lu'Aras

INTERMEDIATE-20140315 Pilot: Sunja Lu'Aras