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Trying to choose a race / weapon systems for a char for small gang warfare


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#1 Dinsdale Pirannha

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:02 PM

Hi all. It has been awhile. I looked to join Agony quite some time ago, with this char, but RL sidetracked me. I am now looking to build up a new char for small gang work. I am hoping, in time, to get the char to join you guys, or get into Factional Warfare, or join RVB. I really don't know at this point. I just know that I want the char to focus on ships no bigger than BC's. I just finished getting Dessie V and BC V, plus all racial cruisers/ frig's to III, in anticipation of June 4th. But at this point, I am pretty lost on what race / weapon systems to start focusing on. I am avoiding the issue atm by focusing on gun support skills, since that covers 3 of the 5 weapon systems. What race / weapon systems would you think would be smart to focus on? I realize that with tiericide, everything is supposed to be equal, but I am reasonably certain there are still a small stable of favoured ships / fits. I have been away from the PvP side of the game for a long long time, not since my null sec days of sov warfare, and I know a lot has changed, so looking for advice on what would be a wise plan of attack on the evil skill empire.

#2 Kaatchina

Kaatchina

Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:25 PM

Gallente seems to have a very good lineup these days, but maybe some people will disagree. I think Gallente is a pretty good starting point and enables you to cross train to anything else (but specifically caldari) pretty quickly too.
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#3 Alistone Malikite

Alistone Malikite

Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

Except that for gallente you often have to cross train drones quite a bit... also with a few amarr ships... TBH, you should probably train all of them to frigate IV (only takes a week) and see what your preference is... I love gallente; but minmatar is still awesome. I suggest work on frigate IV then continue on your support skills while you test them out... for whatever you end up with you'll be glad to have the support skills to go with them. Given how long it takes to you get all your fitting, core integrity, and weapon supports skilled up you'll find that training All 4 races to frigate V is pretty easy; even getting T2 small & medium weapons is only a bit more taxing.
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#4 Kaatchina

Kaatchina

Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:14 PM

Drone skills don't require any spaceship command, or am I missing something? The drone training that you will undergo by training Gallente will be valuable for any cross-train I guess.
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#5 Alistone Malikite

Alistone Malikite

Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:28 PM

Drone skills don't require any spaceship command, or am I missing something? The drone training that you will undergo by training Gallente will be valuable for any cross-train I guess.

I was just pointing out that even gallente require dual weapons systems; hybrid turrets and drones. No race will allow you to focus on just 1 weapon system.

So I was recommending to try them all a bit and focus on supports while you decide what you really like.
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#6 glepp

glepp

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:18 PM

I love Gallente, but minnie works too. Talos is the new Solo-Cane.



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#7 DaDutchDude

DaDutchDude

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

Yeah, I'd say picking between Gallente and Minmatar gives you the best options for small gangs. There will always be some exceptions but I don't think it's bad advance in general.
"As always, speak softly and carry a big stick."


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#8 Wulfrunner

Wulfrunner

Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:13 AM

If I had to do it all over, I'd go Amarr. Very attractive ships, great damage projection, often underestimated!
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#9 Loteaus Seaven

Loteaus Seaven

Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:21 AM

I've only been playing for a short while and have not regretted Gallente... Very interested in Minnie though. I do like the look of Amarr very much.
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#10 roigon

roigon

Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:47 AM

No love for caldari in this topic :( Think of the merlins! :P

#11 Dinsdale Pirannha

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:22 AM

Thanks for the opinions. Sounds like missile boats are not favoured.

#12 Loteaus Seaven

Loteaus Seaven

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:51 AM

I believe PVE with missiles are the way to go. So I've been told
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#13 Vansen

Vansen

Posted 22 May 2013 - 05:57 AM

PVE missiles ... for "solo" stuff (as in you killing the ship you're shooting yourself) as soon as you have several people shooting a single ship, turrets are preferred (especially true for incursions) PVP missiles ... similar turrets preferred due to instant dps
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#14 Goodvibes

Goodvibes

Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:57 AM

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#15 roigon

roigon

Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for the opinions. Sounds like missile boats are not favoured.


Missile boats are absolute awesomesauce. Ships like the hawk, hookbill, talwar and caracal are all really popular at the moment. If you decide to try your luck in FW you will learn to hate the hookbil and just about anywhere in new eden you might run into a caracal that will put you in your place.

However, for someone wondering what to train, missiles are generally a suboptimal choice since the weapon support skills don't overlapp with the turrent skills. While the turret support skills get cross-used by all 3 turret types.

#16 Jysella

Jysella

Posted 22 May 2013 - 06:33 PM

Turret supports get use in every race (caldari is slim pickings but it's there). Missile supports take just as much time and get you caldari, a splash of minmatar, and some amarr T2. Turrets are your best bang-for-the-buck when starting out.
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#17 Goodvibes

Goodvibes

Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

One thing I would say (besides rust buckets 4evah!) is chose one thing and stick with it. They all have their pro's and con's, but if you flip-flop between them you'll suffer as a master of none. Oh, and if you want to see missiles, go look up Fon Revedhort's videos. Shame he turned out to be a neo-nazi, dude inspired me to get into PVP :blink:

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#18 Rynnik

Rynnik

Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:52 PM


Thanks for the opinions. Sounds like missile boats are not favoured.


Missile boats are absolute awesomesauce. Ships like the hawk, hookbill, talwar and caracal are all really popular at the moment. If you decide to try your luck in FW you will learn to hate the hookbil and just about anywhere in new eden you might run into a caracal that will put you in your place.

However, for someone wondering what to train, missiles are generally a suboptimal choice since the weapon support skills don't overlapp with the turrent skills. While the turret support skills get cross-used by all 3 turret types.


Kestrels are one of the most engagable destroymobile frigs in the game right now in my opinion.

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To answer the OP though race is pretty irrelevant. You can have success in any racial lineup these days. (Hurray devs).
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#19 DaDutchDude

DaDutchDude

Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:06 PM

I don't think there's anything wrong with missiles as a weapon system (except the things already mentioned about training). I think the thing is that more often then not (unless you go to the high end of the scale, like T3's), small gang warfare is about being able to pick your fights, end them quickly and / or run away. Gallente and Minmatar ships usually have the edge on agility and speed, where Amarr and Caldari ships usually have the edge on tanking. That is why they usually fit more in larger fights that are more about staying power then mobility. This is a very crude rule of thumb though, so you can always make cases for the exceptions, but I'd say that even after the large rebalancing of ships, this will still hold true. And with picking Minmatar or Gallente, you mostly get away from missiles and into guns (although Minmatar is getting more missile boats lately).
"As always, speak softly and carry a big stick."


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#20 Dinsdale Pirannha

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:10 PM

OK, thanks. Sounds like it will be guns and drones, in that order. The irony is my main has 100M SP, all weapon systems to T2 , all frigs, cruisers, BC's, and BS's to V, can fly all anything virtually perfectly, but that char is now stuck trying to earn ISK for this alt I am slowly building.

#21 Kaatchina

Kaatchina

Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

Use your main to Pew ? What are you doing to make isk ? You can train PI, trade or mining very fast on an alt, and you can use jump clones if you are doing missions or incursions.
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#22 Dinsdale Pirannha

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:19 PM

Use your main to Pew ? What are you doing to make isk ? You can train PI, trade or mining very fast on an alt, and you can use jump clones if you are doing missions or incursions.


I thought about getting my main into a combat situation, but the med clone costs are so high now, I hate the idea that when I get popped the med clone is worth more than the ship I lose.

I do missions, incursions, and a little trading (quite badly) to get by. I figure that I will need a very solid income to support PvP, given how bad I am at it. And I don't think I want my main attached to any group that limits his ability to grind.

I figure the time I need to get an alt trained up to generate decent income is much more than it takes to train decent PvP skills.
Flying a T1 or T2 frig is a lot easier, skill-wise, than getting the skills to fly a ship that will get you invited into an Incursion fleet.

#23 roigon

roigon

Posted 23 May 2013 - 12:30 PM

Depending on where you live, lowsec is generally pretty darn safe for pods. Just start spamming warp the second you are about to die. I mean there are still some "natural" dangerous in lowsec, like sensor boosted gate camps and smart bombing battleships. But at least no bubbles like in nullsec where pod losses are far far more common. I do say depending on where you live though, since it seems that US and AU people tend to on average have a harder time getting their pods out then EU people.

#24 Varius

Varius

Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

Dins, good to see you're still your old, paranoid self! :P



#25 glepp

glepp

Posted 20 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

Hey Varius, how's it going?





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