28 replies to this topic

[Greygal]

Enjoyed the class today! Thank you all for attending, and especially MANY THANKS to all of you for your patience, so sorry we ran so late! New record - 55 minutes past end time! Ouch! I really enjoyed everyone in the class today, ya'll were terrific, and had some really great questions! I can't wait for the roam tomorrow, I expect it's going to be epic stuff! I'll do my best to update this post with some thoughts on the roam after its over. WE LOVE FEEDBACK! Please share your thoughts on today's class and tomorrow's roam with us - the good, the bad, the indifferent, and the ugly!

[2George]

Hi, my connection dropped (ISP hates me) just when we were finished with the bookmarks, and docked back in station in Berta. And i couldn't get back online in time. How much did i miss? Is there a reading material on your wiki about what you were talking about after the bookmarks? Can't wait for the roam (hopefully i can still attend)

[Greygal]

Hi 2George! After bookmarks, we covered basic fleet movement, standing orders, the "J" word (i.e., NEVER say the word "jump" unless you are the FC!), dscanner and spiraling.

The most important thing you missed is standing fleet orders: When we land on a gate, hold on the gate (just orbit the gate at 500meters) - do NOT go through the gate until the FC orders it. We we go through a gate, hold cloak. That means, go through the gate and do not do anything at all until the FC orders it.

You also missed dscanning, voice communications, recon reporting (you'll hear plenty of examples of that during the roam), and an excellent after-class question-and-answers session!

Watch Azual's spiraling video to gain an understanding of spiraling. We don't use it much in the usual Basic class roam, but it is a good skill to know for soloing, skirmishing, small gang fights, and *gasp* sometimes even handy in missions!

If you don't have time for anything else before the roam, be sure to read the Voice Communications article I linked above

Do come on the roam! Looking forward to flying with you!

[david campbell]

It was a great class. Special thanks to the instructors for taking on their spare time to teach a bunch of noobs. I can't wait for the roam tonight, it's gonna be epic.

[Gecko]

Thanks for the class, it was long, but valuable!

I've got 2 remarks though on what was said:

• When making safe spots, you explained people shouldn't rely on mid-safes, but use a mid and a celestial to make a better safe. You didn't explain that an even better way was to use 2 mids (but it is explained on the Wiki )
• (It's more the matter of an advanced class, but still)
  We've been discussing how stealth bombers were making their runs, and I didn't agree quite totally with you. The steps you mentioned were: "align (while cloaked), uncloak, launch bomb, re-cloak, warp away". I just tested that tactic, and as I remembered, you have a re-cloaking delay for bombers, which is about 14 seconds. Thus, if you want to be "on the field" the least time possible, you should align (while cloaked), uncloak, launch bomb, warp and while in warp re-cloak. Am I doing something wrong?

On the other hand, I learned a few things:

• Using the word "Recon" for +1's, so that the FC is actually listening to the report (in E-Uni, comms are sometimes really confused )
• Which ewar module to use, when, and especially WHY (understanding the reason is more valuable than getting flat info on that)
• Listening to women, and following their orders...

I really enjoyed the time (eventhough it was 2am at the end for me) and am looking forward to the roam!
See you later, and continue the great job.

Fly deadly o7

[Itkovian Beddict]

Thanks for the class, it was long, but valuable!

I've got 2 remarks though on what was said:

• When making safe spots, you explained people shouldn't rely on mid-safes, but use a mid and a celestial to make a better safe. You didn't explain that an even better way was to use 2 mids (but it is explained on the Wiki )
• (It's more the matter of an advanced class, but still)
  We've been discussing how stealth bombers were making their runs, and I didn't agree quite totally with you. The steps you mentioned were: "align (while cloaked), uncloak, launch bomb, re-cloak, warp away". I just tested that tactic, and as I remembered, you have a re-cloaking delay for bombers, which is about 14 seconds. Thus, if you want to be "on the field" the least time possible, you should align (while cloaked), uncloak, launch bomb, warp and while in warp re-cloak. Am I doing something wrong?

On the other hand, I learned a few things:

• Using the word "Recon" for +1's, so that the FC is actually listening to the report (in E-Uni, comms are sometimes really confused )
• Which ewar module to use, when, and especially WHY (understanding the reason is more valuable than getting flat info on that)
• Listening to women, and following their orders...

I really enjoyed the time (eventhough it was 2am at the end for me) and am looking forward to the roam!
See you later, and continue the great job.

Fly deadly o7

Glad you enjoyed the class - I wasn't there but I hope to be for the roam...

1) To be honest a mid-celestial safe isn't much more likely to be busted than a mid-mid safe. It's fine to make them either way really.

2) You are correct that you should get into warp as soon as possible after a bombing run. You may not even be able to recloak (at all) as other bombers might be within 2km.

Just a minor additional point: "Recon" is used for all scouts and skirmishers, not just +1s. This may have been what you meant, but just wanted to clarify.

[Othran]

• Listening to women, and following their orders...

Clearly never been married then

[glepp]

• Listening to women, and following their orders... :P/>

Clearly never been married then :P/>

I always get the last say when arguing with my wife...




Ofc, it's usually 'yes, dear'.

[Spiounos Unono]

great first class! can't wait for the roam and glorious deaths

[Othran]

I always get the last say when arguing with my wife...




Ofc, it's usually 'yes, dear'.

I don't bother arguing much now. Even when I "win" it turns out that in fact everything I remember from the previous day is in fact complete bollox and she was right

If I'm going to do something/buy something I just do it and deal with the fallout later - which is why we have gigE connections in every room in the house (bar bathrooms/kitchen etc) and can stream Sky/Freesat/Freeview/downloaded stuff around the house at will

Here's hoping for a fun roam...

[Sum Olgy]

Thanks for running this - I'm guessing there was at least twice as much prep time as there was actual class time and your dedication should be applauded! And thanks to the other teacher(whose name I've completely forgotten) - things are always more interesting when being described in a soft Scottish accent. You gave out some really good tips (Sensor damp a jammed ship so it takes ages to re-lock if a jam misses was, I think, my favourite) and kept it fun. A few thoughts:- Could you get a few more screenshots of the things you're explaining? A picture really does say a 1000 words, especially when your 1st/2nd/3rd language isn't english! Would it be possible to expand a bit on bomb avoidance tactics, seeing this seems to the the number 1 factor on ship losses during a roam like this? Coming from a wormhole background I thought I'd mention the importance of having probes on your overview/DSCAN - Could you point out that when at safes you *must* be looking for probes zeroing in on you? It's not enough to know there's probes within 14AU - you want to know if they're getting within 4AU, 2AU, 1AU..... Although RvB's scanner last night wasn't the sharpest, thankfully! Given there's *always* going to be losses, would it be an idea (standing instruction?) to have anyone podded, and back a station, to join a 'Rallying/Podded' TS channel, so fleet re-joining can be organised quicker? I'm sure a '2nd ship' group could have got out and back into battle much faster with something like this in place.

[Steven Koskanaiken]

Currently busy editing fraps....will upload YT link when done

[Dreadeye]

great as allways.

Just a note on your griffin fit.
at the end of the fitting it states:

Alternatively, you may drop the Dispersion Projector rigs for a second Dispersion Augmentor rig (but be aware of how much that will reduce your jammer's optimal)

its not possible to fit 2 augmentor rigs and 1 dispersion due to calibration. so its either the suggested fit or only 2 augmentor and a free rig slot.

[Deran]

great as allways.

Just a note on your griffin fit.
at the end of the fitting it states:

Alternatively, you may drop the Dispersion Projector rigs for a second Dispersion Augmentor rig (but be aware of how much that will reduce your jammer's optimal)

its not possible to fit 2 augmentor rigs and 1 dispersion due to calibration. so its either the suggested fit or only 2 augmentor and a free rig slot.

Note use of plural

[Steven Koskanaiken]

Update on Fraps: Fraps recording has failed. The quality of what I recorded was terrible. So can't even get a proper looking video from that. Better luck next time, and next time I will prep Fraps before a roam, not during...

[Dreadeye]

great as allways.

Just a note on your griffin fit.
at the end of the fitting it states:

Alternatively, you may drop the Dispersion Projector rigs for a second Dispersion Augmentor rig (but be aware of how much that will reduce your jammer's optimal)

its not possible to fit 2 augmentor rigs and 1 dispersion due to calibration. so its either the suggested fit or only 2 augmentor and a free rig slot.

Note use of plural

Right. I read 3 rigs, my bad

[Dreadeye]

What is agonys, if any, thoughts on the use of jamming ships, now that the new ECCM skills has arrived. I could imagine them becoming obselete in the future, but probably too soon to say.

[Deran]

What is agonys, if any, thoughts on the use of jamming ships, now that the new ECCM skills has arrived.
I could imagine them becoming obselete in the future, but probably too soon to say.

Assuming the target has his comps trained to a decent level, his sensor strength will be 20-25% better, so it depends on the ship. That said, if it was easy to jam before, it'll still be reasonably easy to jam now, only slightly less so.

[ToranBrades]

Assuming the target has his comps trained to a decent level, his sensor strength will be 20-25% better[..]

Of course it is ze 16-20% improved strength zat Deran is talking about

[AkJon Ferguson]

On the new eccm comp skills, it looks like it rounds down (truncates)? I trained mine to 4 for minmatar and was disappointed that my sensor strength only went from 11 to 12 (I'll have to train it to V to get to 13 I guess.)

On bombing runs: If alumni are going to be responsible for fending off bombers, we should be especially encouraged to fit long range (you're never going to hit any but the most fail bombers with autocannons, at least not before the bomb goes off.) Nothing shreds bombers like a few skilled pilots with 250mm (my weapon of choice) or 280mm arty and a TE or 2 (my current fit has 2 TE (instead of a 2nd gyro) both so I can kill bombers better and so I can fit a 2nd EWAR because I'm all about the team and stuff.)

I ended the roam stuck in VOL after I escaped the last bombing run in half structure. I tried sneaking home after the euro folks (and some of the US folks) had gone to bed and jumped into Los (with a couple of buddies) in a dictor on the Doril side of Doril/Jorund. I was resigned to losing my ship but was hoping to get my pod out. I powered back to the gate and made my first mistake by jumping through. I should have tried warping off to force him to get aggression. He followed me through and I made my 2nd mistake by trying to get into warp before he could get a bubble up instead of getting my bearings. My heart dropped when my warp drive shut down and my speed dropped. All I could do now was click randomly and power up my MWD and pray. His buddies started to dribble in as I overheated the MWD before the 2nd cycle. I was clear for now and saw a celestial I thought was pretty much in line with my direction and warped to it at 50. My ship slowed and veered drastically and I realized it hadn't been as lined up as I had thought (3rd mistake.) Hoping against hope that I hadn't slowed enough to allow my pursuers to catch me, my prayers were soon answered and I was in warp. Once I landed I hit warp to a safespot and relaxed a bit (4th mistake.) About 5 seconds later I realized that that warp hadn't been initiated and I saw Los landing on grid. Oh shit. I warped to the safespot again and made my final prayer, that he had warped at 100 or 0. Sure enough, he'd warped at 0 and I was finally safe. Adrenaline rush for the day achieved.

Ironically I logged in today with 50,000 logged in and 2 quick uneventful hops followed and I was safe in Sendaya.

[Deran]

Assuming the target has his comps trained to a decent level, his sensor strength will be 20-25% better[..]

Of course it is ze 16-20% improved strength zat Deran is talking about

What is this Eve thing again?

[Steven Koskanaiken]

Sorry for the quality, Fraps thought it would be okay to record in low quality

[Quest]

Thanks to everybody for coming to the roam, which from my perspective was one of the toughest yet. The stealth bombers were extremely well organised and our fragile ships kept being popped by up to 12 bombs hitting the fleet. As they were both harassing RvB ganked fleet and us, the number of squishy targets meant that they just kept going for us.

As a result establishing a proper roam was difficult especially when we needed to evade 120-150 RvB fleet flying in the same area (plus a few others FA, NC-dot etc.) . Anyways we got some nice kills, most of us died a few times and we had a fine slug at the end with RvB guys.

All in all a proper 0.0 experience, and although at the end I was completely exhausted, it was a rewarding experience four your humble FC. Also in spite of all the madness going on, the fleet comms were excellent, the movement fast and no unauthorised jumps, so props to you guys, well done!

On bombing runs: If alumni are going to be responsible for fending off bombers, we should be especially encouraged to fit long range (you're never going to hit any but the most fail bombers with autocannons, at least not before the bomb goes off.) Nothing shreds bombers like a few skilled pilots with 250mm (my weapon of choice) or 280mm arty and a TE or 2 (my current fit has 2 TE (instead of a 2nd gyro) both so I can kill bombers better and so I can fit a 2nd EWAR because I'm all about the team and stuff.)

It is an interesting suggestion and we may consider a proper anti-bombing fits. As you say Arty with a high alpha is perfect for this, but also a Sebo and TE is quite useful to be able to apply damage quickly. The problem is that with a hydra fleet you compromise a lot by having a specific anti-bomber setup and while it would be good for that one use, we would be disadvantaged in other situations.
Having said that, having on standby an anti-bomb fit could be a lot of fun as well.

On a side note, DCU + MSE on my Merlin made me survive all the bombing attacks, and while depending on ones skills it may not be for everybody possible to fit such a tanky ship, it is probably worth considering when joining on the next Alumni roam.

[Othran]

On the new eccm comp skills, it looks like it rounds down (truncates)? I trained mine to 4 for minmatar and was disappointed that my sensor strength only went from 11 to 12 (I'll have to train it to V to get to 13 I guess.)

It rounds down on the fitting screen (it's an integer field and Python rounds decimals down by default when you convert to int) but if you do a "show info" on your ship then you will see the correct value.

[zar dada]

Thanks for the class. I learned most of the topics through E-UNI, but I did learn some very helpful tricks about making bookmarks quickly and tactical bookmarks close to gates while warping into a fight. During the Roam, I got to experience Bombs, so many Bombs. The FC and Scouts were very impressive. Thanks to greygal and chrome for teaching the class on the 7th. fly safe o/