27 replies to this topic

[Dior Saursi]

https://forums.eveon...260#post1707260



For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.


Loot Drops
Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.


Kill Reports
Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.

Self-destructs that do not involved player aggression will not generate a kill-report


By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it.

[DaDutchDude]

Sweet. Good change is good.

[roigon]

Good change, don't often blow up carriers and the likes, but can imagine the frustration of one S/D'ing and denying the verifiable kill. I would have liked a sort of identification though, like for instance the last hit always being the pilot himself with as weapon self destruction or something.

[Dior Saursi]

People couldn't be counted to post their lossmails. It is best this way I think.

[Feline Ferocity]

finally... only took them what 8-9 years? good job ccp

[roigon]

People couldn't be counted to post their lossmails. It is best this way I think.

ah, didn't think of that. Although without some flag or other indication it was a S/D I am now waiting for the first API verified noobship carrier kill.

[Tea]

Well I was in the either / or camp so I'm a bit disappointed by this change. Yeah we still use it for pod express but there is now no point whatsoever to the self destruct mechanism in a ship (other than to deny people boarding them if you need to pod express out of W-space).

[glepp]

Improvements? In MY Eve?

[Lady Dhalia]

Improvements? In MY Eve?

Naah.. They'll just :ccp: all over it and the whole killmail system goes crash and every single killmail ever done goes corrupt.

[ChildofDestruction]

Finally ! No more self self distructing caps

[Rynnik]

Naah.. They'll just :ccp: all over it and the whole killmail system goes crash and every single killmail ever done goes corrupt.

Now THAT would be a beautiful, beautiful dream come true.

[Ronat]

Nice, I'm glad they are finally changing this. Any ship lost should provide a loss mail and with aggression a kill mail. No more self-destructing your cap to Agony frigate gangs!

[Virto Nex]

Naah.. They'll just :ccp: all over it and the whole killmail system goes crash and every single killmail ever done goes corrupt.

Now THAT would be a beautiful, beautiful dream come true.

Seriously, if you think about it, KM (and by extension killboards) are terrible for conflict in the game. They encourage people to be risk-averse.

EDIT: Happy Itko!???!!1

[Itkovian Beddict]

Seriously, if you think about it, KM (and by extension killboards) are terrible for conflict in the game. They encourage people to be risk-adverse.

Averse. Sorry, this one gets on my nerves.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Bad change. I was happy knowing I caused a cap to SD. There should be no loot if someone has the presence of mind to SD. Fewer cap kills, more risk aversion will result.

[Aluchem]

Good change, people who are risk averse will always be that way, now we get some tears at least.

[KTog]

mixed feelings on this one. The killmail finally being done for sd is long over due. However, the mods dropping on a ship that sd makes the sd function pointless. They should have simply made it give a kill/loss mail and leave it at that. Guess time will tell on how good or bad this is for the game.

[DaDutchDude]

I guess denying the loot with a Self Desctruct would actually serve a function, so I'd be fine if that stayed in, but at least the thing producting a kill mail is good. I always hated the hoopla of denial surrounding self-destruct.

[Sarek Minyatar]

now if we would only manage to find, catch and force a Carrier to SD again... It has been ages.

[Tea]

I guess denying the loot with a Self Desctruct would actually serve a function, so I'd be fine if that stayed in, but at least the thing producting a kill mail is good. I always hated the hoopla of denial surrounding self-destruct.

That was always my preferred solutions. The kill is recorded and assigned to the agressors but the pilot could issue a final FU to them in denying the loot. Tears on both sides

Of course during CSM4 the merc on the council wanted both the killmail (for contract verification purposes) and the loot dropping and strangely this exact change goes in while he is on the council again

[Vora]

Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD. If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place. A good change IMO.

[Tea]

Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD.
If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place.
A good change IMO.

WH space you just have to expect to leave your ship floating in space if you want to leave system without it.
If you want to clone jump you can just find somebody to kill your pod.

See how this argument works both ways

People are risk adverse enough already so this elitist attitude of "Don't undock if you don't want to lose your ship" is one of the reasons people blob up (or never leave highsec). This change doesn't move that balance much I admit, but the attitude persists. HTFU people say, yet that very same phrase also worked both ways "You wanted my kill mail, should have brought more DPS, HTFU" or "My loot, you can't has, HTFU"

The old system was broken, mostly because any ship size took the same amount of time to self destruct. Smaller ships (such as those we fly) very rarely got time to SD (and we were not in the midset of denying kills in this way) so of course we only really see it used on capitals from the denied killmail side.

The new system flip flops totally the other way when they should have gone for a balance instead.


For the record, least anyone thinks I have a particular axe to grind, I have never self destructed a fitted ship and I have been in a number of situations where a hostile cap has done so. I just like to see tears on both sides of these type of changes

[Itkovian Beddict]

Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD.
If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place.
A good change IMO.

WH space you just have to expect to leave your ship floating in space if you want to leave system without it.
If you want to clone jump you can just find somebody to kill your pod.

See how this argument works both ways

How do you get out of a WH without SD? It's all well and good demanding you leave your ship behind but you still can't get out!

Also, not everyone wants to wait for someone else to blow them up to pod hop. I definitely think there are still uses for Self Destruct.

Why is "don't undock if you don't want to lose your ship" and elitist attitude? It might well have something to do with people being risk averse but I don't see it as elitist...

Finally, if you don't want people to just "blob up" don't discourage small gangs by saying "you need moar dps or no carrier KM for you". I do agree with the loot thing though, if you SD I'm quite happy for it to destroy loot (or at least make the percentage drop worse or something).

[Aluchem]

Fuck SD not giving you any loot anyway, if we spend the 15 minutes or so to break a Titan, what's to stop him just setting it at the last two minutes?

[Tea]

Fuck SD not giving you any loot anyway, if we spend the 15 minutes or so to break a Titan, what's to stop him just setting it at the last two minutes?

Because it is funny

With the suggested SD changes you would have got a killmail to prove the kill took place and the pilot will have still lost his titan. I doubt we give a shit about the loot from a titan compared to actually killing it in the first place

Pod jumps and WH acts of desperation are reason enough for SD.
If you begrudge someone your modules don't get tackled in the first place.
A good change IMO.

WH space you just have to expect to leave your ship floating in space if you want to leave system without it.
If you want to clone jump you can just find somebody to kill your pod.

See how this argument works both ways

How do you get out of a WH without SD? It's all well and good demanding you leave your ship behind but you still can't get out!

Yes well I wasn't being fully serious there, I was just pointing out that people will use the same argument both ways on these things. If you didn't want to get stuck in a wormhole you shouldn't have gone in there in the first place etc.

Also, not everyone wants to wait for someone else to blow them up to pod hop. I definitely think there are still uses for Self Destruct.

True but then is a self destruct the best way to do this, see post below.

Why is "don't undock if you don't want to lose your ship" and elitist attitude? It might well have something to do with people being risk averse but I don't see it as elitist...

Because this is the stock answer given to anyone who complains about any PVP loss. Yes people are risk adverse in the main (suicidal frig and dessy pilots aside ) but in my time on the CSM I had to deal with a number of people who think they are superior to other players because they embrace PVP (usually in blobs where they are actually pretty safe ) while others hide from it. Eve is certainly a PVP game at the core, but it's not all PVP is ship explosions

Finally, if you don't want people to just "blob up" don't discourage small gangs by saying "you need moar dps or no carrier KM for you". I do agree with the loot thing though, if you SD I'm quite happy for it to destroy loot (or at least make the percentage drop worse or something).

Oh I'm not promoting blobbing, I was just pointing out that we've gone from a situation where SD was the way to hide expensive stupidity to a pointless mechanic (in combat) without passing through a more reasonable phase.


To make things clearer with all the quoting, I'll use the next post instead