49 replies to this topic

[Copter_Pilot]

I would love the help of Agony and the Agony army of students & pvp'ers who favor and respect small gang pvp to help with this topic on evo.

https://forums.eveon...270&find=unread

so tired of ships self-destructing under duress, cast your vote by posting on that forum.

o/ fly safe

[Dior Saursi]

Will vote.

[Aluchem]

I had a long conversation with Darius when I spotted him in local recently, I brought this up and he told me they are trying to come up with a fair way to implement it on the CSM.

[Carenthor Loon]

If I vote x times will you come home?

[Granger]

If I vote x times will you come home?

+2'd - can do another 7 if that would help the latter

[Rynnik]

Why specifically Copter? Shouldn't blowing up your ship be a valid result from combat? Either way the ship is 'removed' from the game. I don't buy the 'epeen' argument much, so I am just wondering what basis you are raising this from? /end devil's advocate

[Othran]

Done. As I said over there : "Either remove the option to self-destruct or generate a killmail regardless of whether its a self-destruct or not. Highest damage from a player on-grid gets the killmail. I can see an argument for denying people loot by self-destructing but it shouldn't be a way to protect your killboard." Seems pretty obvious to me so I dunno why CSM is looking for a "fair way of implementing it", unless that's code for "the blobs don't like it"

[Silas]

Definitely +1

How do you properly +1 in the assembly hall these days since they changed the forums? Do you have to click "like" or just post +1?

Why specifically Copter? Shouldn't blowing up your ship be a valid result from combat? Either way the ship is 'removed' from the game. I don't buy the 'epeen' argument much, so I am just wondering what basis you are raising this from?

/end devil's advocate

Go play in traffic Ryn...

[Rynnik]

I can see an argument for denying people loot by self-destructing but it shouldn't be a way to protect your killboard.

I don't agree with that at all. There is no reason in my opinion that a ship blowing up from a self destruct shouldn't have exactly the same loot dropping mechanics as a ship destroyed any other way.

@ Silas: I would but they won't let me out of my cubicle for hours yet...

[Copter_Pilot]

Why specifically Copter? Shouldn't blowing up your ship be a valid result from combat? Either way the ship is 'removed' from the game. I don't buy the 'epeen' argument much, so I am just wondering what basis you are raising this from?

/end devil's advocate

epeen? Me either, however, to an extent, killmails register accomplishments, from trivial to nice capital kills. Nice killmails also bond corp members and provide some history for the corp to reflect on if needed. Nice killmails also allow small pvp corps to recruit. Yes, it matters that your killboard is decorated nicely with some juicy mails.

Just this morning, I had a Thanny tackled, nicely bumped, bubbled, webbed. I put forth my time and effort to bring in the DPS get this kill. with 20% structure remaining the guy self-destructs. It is irritating and a waste of my time to not get a killmail from this. This has happened multiple times since I left Agony and frankly I'm tired of it. Call it epeen if you wish. Personally, I would like the killmail as a record of how well my corp worked together, totally outclassed in numbers and ship types.

[Ronat]

Hi copter! I would say a KM should be valid, but self destruct would remove most or all of the drops and salvage could still be taken.

[Rynnik]

Sorry if epeen came across combatively, either way nice response. Good to talk to you again! What do you think of Othran's suggestion that a self destruct produces a killmail? Basically if the loot drop is no change from normal destruction and the killmail still comes up to the person with highest damage or something then your aim is met but the ship still has the option to self destruct in combat. If someone wants to hit the self destruct button and save you the time of grinding through their EHP then I think that should be a valid (if slightly lame) combat option. I totally agree that the mechanic of being 'rewarded' for doing that is just dumb and could use a review. Hopefully CCP takes notice and something positive is changed in response!

[Carver]

Screw that! Blow the goods in the cargo and self-destruct should add splash damage, too.

[Rackhir]

I wonder what people would do/say, if selfdestruct didn't generate a killmail, but did drop all modules from the ship and destroyed only the hull.

[Sadamu]

Eh. It seems like there's at least a reasonable RP-ish justification for the loot drop mechanics being different.... If my ship is wired up with self-destruct charges, it's likely that I'd do a much better job of destroying everything important than the random carnage wreaked by space bullets. But the incentives shouldn't make it an attractive choice. I say self-destruct destroys all the modules, pods you, and causes splash damage within smartbomb radius.

[Azual]

As I said in the thread, there's a real danger that removing self destruct entirely would be useful as a very effective griefing tool (hold a player until downtime, nothing they can do). However, I completely support generating killmails for self destruct.

[Goodvibes]

As I said in the thread, there's a real danger that removing self destruct entirely would be useful as a very effective griefing tool (hold a player until downtime, nothing they can do).

However, I completely support generating killmails for self destruct.

Edit: oh and hai Copter! o/ Funny, we were just talking about how we missed you the other day

[Old Toterra]

As I said in the thread, there's a real danger that removing self destruct entirely would be useful as a very effective griefing tool (hold a player until downtime, nothing they can do).

However, I completely support generating killmails for self destruct.

Actually I think that griefing woud not work as long as you can eject from the ship. (pods should be able to self destruct) It also sort of adds to ransom possibilities. Pirates could hold you forcing you to eject from your ship.

[glepp]

Hey Copter! How's Venal or wherever treating you? Miss those crazy rupture roams of yours.

[Arceris]

I agree with the idea that loot mechanics should be different, and love the splash-damage (maybe smart bomb like damage with damage and range related to sig radius?) But... I think that the a kill mail should be issued, perhaps with a notation that the pilot cowardly self-destructed... Maybe include a special weapon type that executes upon detonation that shows up on the loss mail as the killing blow.

[Othran]

As I said in the thread, there's a real danger that removing self destruct entirely would be useful as a very effective griefing tool (hold a player until downtime, nothing they can do).

Petition under stuck, explain you are being harrassed and a GM will appear in local reasonably quickly.

I only know about this because I watched it happen in some high-sec hub, guy got scrammed, webbed and bumped off the station, held for about 30 minutes and then all the aggressors suddenly disappeared from local - and grid.

Not ideal but it works. I think 20-30 minutes is considered the maximum acceptable before its a EULA violation (harrassment).

Ryn, I consider self-destruct to destroy the loot perfectly acceptable. I don't think there should be any chance of drops. If you're engaged in sov warfare <spit> then denial of assets/isk is part of the game.

Personally I couldn't give a stuff about the killmail but IMHO that is the cause of the self-destruct problem - apart from the clueless muppets who lose caps in PVE and self-destruct to prevent the CEO seeing it.

[Aluchem]

The possibility of griefing was the main reason Darius cited for not removing self destruct entirely while in combat. He mentioned that was the developers perspective and the CSM has been playing around with ideas like an extended timer while in combat in order to deliver a fair implementation. So essentially the petition has already succeeded.

[Azual]

Fair points regarding ejecting, although obviously that voids the pilot's insurance. I suspect if the change were to be made, you'd see a lot more people holding targets ad-infinitum until the pilot ejects just so they can get the ship. Whether that's a bad thing of course is a fair question, at the very least it would make piracy more profitable!

[Garulf Hirgon]

I've always wondered what self-destruction has to do with other than your pod. Why would it even involve the ship? Pilot elects to self-destruct, timer counts down, ship ejects dead goo, pilot wakes up in clone vat. As far as griefing goes...it's possible to grief in eve??? I thought that was just part of the game...

[Goodvibes]

I've always wondered what self-destruction has to do with other than your pod. Why would it even involve the ship? Pilot elects to self-destruct, timer counts down, ship ejects dead goo, pilot wakes up in clone vat.

As far as griefing goes...it's possible to grief in eve??? I thought that was just part of the game...

From an RP perspective, you have the sort of situation where destroying the ship is preferable to the enemy gaining valuable / sensitive cargo.

From a bloody minded perspective, it's about asset denial. I'd love if self destruct did splash damage. Especially if it had an emergency override on the timer They even have a pilot self-destruct his 'ranis as a last act of defiance and take out some drop ships in one of the books, so it's cannon too!

The problem is the dicks who do it for killmail denial / to avoid an embarassing lossmail. When we were rolling with NC (or was it NC.? I never worked it out), the FC of a capfleet ordered the cap pilots to self destruct specifically deny killmails. Happy to say that Agony cap pilots didn't comply and died gloriously on the field of battle. If you still get killmails for a self-destructed ship, that ends that problem.