9 replies to this topic

[Freerunner]

I've been camping this forum off and on for a long, long time and have only managed to get into two classes. I'm sure I'm not the only one with my nose pressed against the window, longing for illumination. Is there any chance you guys would consider setting up a long term waiting list? Maybe setup a list for each class that people can sign up on now (assuming they have the prerequisites of course)and then Agony just moves down the list as classes come up. The person gets one evemail with an invite (as simple as a link to the forum post) and 48hrs to respond and pay the fee before he's dropped from the list. Using the first lists and a graduation system, people could be moved through the "pipeline" from Basic through the advanced classes. Each graduating class would just be added to the bottom of the next class list, until the first signups move through and it becomes a rolling admissions process, like traditional high school where you move through grades with the same people. I'm willing to donate 250mil ISK to the cause, and, if manpower is short, I'd be willing to volunteer my time as registrar. I long to taste the sweet nectar of your brains.

[Corywyn]

No, we don't do waiting lists. If we did, the waiting lists would fill up in an instant and a few months later someone would ask for a waiting list for the waiting list Adding a waiting list wouldn't solve the underlying issue of having too much demand for the classes beyond PVP-BASIC, a demand that we sadly can't satisfy with our current number of instructors and support staff at this time. See the problem? Plus with your idea of a fixed pipeline, we'd have to go back to the beginning of Agony and set up the list ... You can imagine the admin required to do that. And if we would just start doing it with future classes, it would be unfair for previous students. So not going to happen barring some unforeseen developments.

[roigon]

No, we don't do waiting lists.

If we did, the waiting lists would fill up in an instant and a few months later someone would ask for a waiting list for the waiting list
Adding a waiting list wouldn't solve the underlying issue of having too much demand for the classes beyond PVP-BASIC, a demand that we sadly can't satisfy with our current number of instructors and support staff at this time.

See the problem?

Plus with your idea of a fixed pipeline, we'd have to go back to the beginning of Agony and set up the list ... You can imagine the admin required to do that. And if we would just start doing it with future classes, it would be unfair for previous students. So not going to happen barring some unforeseen developments.

You should think of branching out into franchising and setting up 'certified Agony basic/wolfpack/advanced/etc.. instructor' certificates For the low low price of 500M ISK. Then letting non-agony corps register to be able to offer agony courses (of course only by certified instructors) for the low subscription price of 100M a month, and a 15% cut of all training fee's collected with a minimum of 15M per student.

Agony would become the richest alliance in the game (well at least until some franchise holder grows balls and starts its own brand of trainings)

Also lots of paperwork, so probably not the bestest of ideas.

[Freerunner]

You wouldn't have to go back. The list would start current from today with whoever wanted to add themselves to whichever class list. Then, moving forward, it could be rolling admission. It would allow you to do some financial and timing planning. It would also give you an idea of exactly how much demand there really is. If the classes are going to become practicums (I believe someone told me that was the way things were moving with the opening up of the wiki to the public), in effect you'd be setting up a schedule for guided roams.

Just a thought. Also, if you charged more, perhaps more teachers would make themselves available. I think they certainly deserve more for the contribution they're making to the player base.

[Othran]

I think you guys are probably overestimating how many Agony people are ACTIVELY involved in PVPU. It is quite literally a handful of people. The scouts/dictors/etc volunteer on a per-class basis. The vast majority of Agony (unless its radically changed) have nothing to do with PVPU, nor do they have any interest in being involved with it. They're in Agony to fight. So when you see 200-300 (don't know how many it is now) in Agony and you take half away as alts, then out of the 120 or so left there are probably only 10 who are regularly involved in PVPU. Out of those maybe 5 that run the class regularly. Its simply not a consideration for most of Agony, its a sideline for people who enjoy that stuff/pays a few corp & instructor bills.

[roigon]

I think you guys are probably overestimating how many Agony people are ACTIVELY involved in PVPU.

lol, perhaps my humour is just a bit too quirky and it not clear enough in my reply, but I was basically just joking Such a borderline kafkaesque system would no doubt collapse under it's own weight no matter if there are 10 or a 100 people involved

[Corywyn]

You wouldn't have to go back. The list would start current from today with whoever wanted to add themselves to whichever class list. Then, moving forward, it could be rolling admission. It would allow you to do some financial and timing planning. It would also give you an idea of exactly how much demand there really is. If the classes are going to become practicums (I believe someone told me that was the way things were moving with the opening up of the wiki to the public), in effect you'd be setting up a schedule for guided roams.

Just a thought. Also, if you charged more, perhaps more teachers would make themselves available. I think they certainly deserve more for the contribution they're making to the player base.

Yes, we would have to go back, otherwise old students would be at a disadvantage and - rightfully so - disappointed with our actions.

The "financial and timing planning" really isn't an issue, the issue for planning classes are exclusively the reallife schedules of the instructors and FCs.

Lastly, us instructors don't make any ISK off of our teaching, the money goes into the corp wallet and is just for things like fueling POSes, paying office bills, fuel for our jump logistics, etc etc. Like cr8r said in his goodbye thread "something most of you probably haven't realized, but most instructors or trainers you will come across in your life, regardless of the position, are there in large part because they actually enjoy passing on knowledge to people" - we don't do it to make money, we do it because we enjoy it and we want to help others in EVE to enjoy PvP aswell and maybe become worthy adversaries or even corp members down the road.

[Gavin]

There are other organizations within EVE that offer pvp training, they just aren't very well known. Eve University has some, several merc corporations advertise pvp training as one of their services, and I've seen a couple corps in game that supposedly offer pvp training to members. Agony, however, has two things going for them:

1) they're well known while the others don't immediately come to mind when you're looking for this, and
2) the quality of the instruction is also well known, while the others is open to question.

[Kheket]

The only way I could see a wait-list working is if it was referred to, to fill open slots. And only used in that scenario. Because real life can blindside you sometimes, and of all the classes I've been in, there have always been at least 1-2 slots open after role and stuff.

[Talr Shiar]

aye the bottom line issue is, to much demand not enough supply. Ecconomics one 0 one lol. Agony you are the apple of EVE and you provide a excellent service don't need to change your tone, just keep doing one class or so a month and provide a bad ass place for new players to learn the ropes.