24 replies to this topic

[John McGuirk]

ECM EFT Warrior Contest

Inspired by Othran and Caldak's recent contests, I'm announcing a contest of my own. Contest closes 22 Oct 1800 EVE time, just before the Wolfpacks roam.

Eligibility
Contest open to students who've graduated (i.e. taken for the first time) Basic OR Wolfpacks in the past 6 months (or next weekend).

Prize
50 M ISK, first come, first served. I reserve the right to split this creatively between contestants if no winners emerge.

If the objectives seems contrived, specific, and constrained, this is because I'm working backwards from a couple of points about fitting ECM. I have an ECM fitting guide in the works, and while I'm putting the finishing touches on it, I figured I'd run a quick contest to get people engaged. There are at least two fits I know of that meet all the objectives.

Rules

• You have two pilots, both with all skills to 5. No projected effects/squad bonuses/implants/boosters. Just raw "All level V" characters.
• They are both flying Blackbirds, with IDENTICAL fits, flying ECM support for a gang. Submit this single fit as your entry. Start with the fit at the end of this post (high-power slots are fixed).
• Since ECM and module damage from overheating are both chance-based, I'll discuss AVERAGES here (that is, what EFT tells you for module life and ECM jam chance).
• T1 and T2 modules only, T1 rigs only. This fit should really only cost around 10 M, it's nothing exotic.
• The fit must feature an online prop mod.

Objectives

• You have intel that the enemy gang you will be chasing has a single Falcon with a Gravimetric Backup Array II fitted. Between your two identically-fit Blackbirds working together, you must have better than 0.7 single-cycle jam probability, and must keep this up for at least 7 cycles before ANY jammer burns out.
• You will be flying gang support at range, hopefully out of harm's way. Between your two identically-fit Blackbirds working together, you must be able to perma-jam any two Stilettos, Ares, or Crusaders out to > 110 km to keep your main fleet from being pinned. That is, it could be two Stilettos, two Ares, two Crusaders, or a mix, but there are two total. None of these are fitted with ECCM or Backup Sensors. You must keep this up for at least 7 cycles before ANY jammer burns out.
• The fit is permanently cap-stable with ALL fitted jammers running continuously. That is, there are additional targets beyond the Falcon and interceptors, and all your jammers are committed and cycling. The Remote Armor Repair System is considered onlined but not activated for this objective, as is a Microwarp Drive if you've chosen one as your prop mod.

All objectives must be met simultaneously. That is, your two pilots jam the Falcon with better than a 0.7 probability each cycle, AND permajam any two of the specified interceptors out to > 110 km. The fit must be able to do this for at least 7 ECM cycles before ANY jammer burns out.

Base your fit off of this:

[Blackbird, ECM Contest 111022 Starter]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Medium Remote Armor Repair System I

Good luck and enjoy.

[AkJon Ferguson]

This is not an entry (I don't qualify) but I'm interested in bringing a blackbird to some roam at some point down the road (I start Caldari Cruiser IV later today, don't really want to fly this until I have it to V.) I was thinking something like this:

[Blackbird, Wolfpacks support]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S

Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Ionic Field Projector I

(If I did qualify, my entry might look like this:)

[Blackbird, ECM Contest 111022 Starter]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II


'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Medium Remote Armor Repair System I

Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Ionic Field Projector I

Actually this wouldn't win because it's not cap stable. But contests aside it's cap stable with 4 jammers running and won't cap out for >5min with all 5 running and I wouldn't trade my stronger jams, my longer optimal, or my longer lock for a smidgen of cap stability. (If you swap out 2 of your jammers (the gallente and amarr ones rate to be cheapest, so 'hypnos' and 'umbra') for meta 4 it's cap stable and meets all contest criteria.)

[John McGuirk]

I should probably have requested that ineligible people PM me if they were interested... That said, contest still open for a student. And this contest shouldn't be construed as recommended fitting advice, it was primarily to get people pushing ECM fits around in EFT by using some artificial constraints

[AkJon Ferguson]

Hey now, I'm a noob for ECM purposes (pretty sure my next jam (ECM drones aside) will be my first.) Else I would have known the meta 4's were so much less cap hungry and otherwise just as good. Kinda surprising there's any demand for tech 2 gallente/amarr jammers at all (more expensive and less useful than meta 4's.) Must be quite a few noob ECM pilots out there who just assume that t2 is always better. Anyway, I'm curious about how the ecm guys are feeling. Are Agony FC's gangwarping you to your death? Are you generally able to get to a comfortable (60km+ maybe?) range in most large engagements? Is there some SOP that would make the ECM squad's life a lot easier without thoroughly inconveniencing the main fleet? While the hydra concept works great in theory, in practice I think expecting a bunch of new PVP'ers to distribute ewar efficiently is expecting A LOT. But if we get an experienced squad of ECM'ers out on every roam, we're going to be able to consistently win a lot more fights than we do now.

[AkJon Ferguson]

The reason I ask is that I suspect a lot of blackbirds/kitsunes are going to fit more tank and nerf their ecm ability because they are getting put in vulnerable positions too often. Max ECM, no tank ecm boats pwn and I think their safety/positioning should be given top priority on roams. I also wonder about the whole ewar group concept. In an ideal world, I picture a basic class where each student is assigned an alphabet range (based on pilot name) and gets warped in in groups on a random battlecruiser gang. Their objective is to lock the right targets (these are the targets they'd apply their ewar to in 0.0) within say 8 seconds. I think practicing something like that would improve the efficiency of the hydra concept tremendously.

[John McGuirk]

Well, O'Kais and I, over the past couple classes, have started trying to separate out ECM and fly independently from the gang. Which is not necessarily in RESPONSE to being fleetwarped to our deaths, but more of a proactive measure to keep ECM out of harm's way and let them engage at will, late, and at range. I honestly don't think it goes against the hydra principle for one big reason: ECM is special amongst the primary racial EWAR types. Ship bonuses mean that ECM modules do not get distributed throughout spare mids in the fleet. You either fly an ECM ship or don't fit ECM. Furthermore, once you choose an ECM hull, you use your mids for ECM, not the other EWAR types. This is in contrast to damps, tracks, webs, and scrams (with painters being not as useful for the reasons mentioned in the reading materials), which ARE generally distributed throughout spare mids. Once you've got that assumption down, and realize that with some moderate skillpoint investment in ECM means that they can be effective at range, the question becomes why put them in the middle of fights in the first place, especially when they're recognized as primary targets? Hence our crusade to separate ECM from not only the combat ships, but other EWAR. Caldak has been helping (at some inconvenience to the fleet) by assigning what he calls TAM artists for our use who burn TACs in preparation for fights so that ECM is safe and can engage after the enemy is committed, at range where we can stay safe. O'Kais has been leading the ECM squad, and has made and is making more and more ECM specific TACs for us to use independently from he fleet. So far FCs have been supportive, but this is all really at their discretion. I will probably regurgitate this stuff again in a future fittings and tactics guide, which is all open to feedback an discussion. I'm just a guy with a commitment to ECM and a desire to see it live up to its potential in the Agony roam format.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Well, O'Kais and I, over the past couple classes, have started trying to separate out ECM and fly independently from the gang. Which is not necessarily in RESPONSE to being fleetwarped to our deaths, but more of a proactive measure to keep ECM out of harm's way and let them engage at will, late, and at range. I honestly don't think it goes against the hydra principle for one big reason: ECM is special amongst the primary racial EWAR types. Ship bonuses mean that ECM modules do not get distributed throughout spare mids in the fleet. You either fly an ECM ship or don't fit ECM. Furthermore, once you choose an ECM hull, you use your mids for ECM, not the other EWAR types. This is in contrast to damps, tracks, webs, and scrams (with painters being not as useful for the reasons mentioned in the reading materials), which ARE generally distributed throughout spare mids. Once you've got that assumption down, and realize that with some moderate skillpoint investment in ECM means that they can be effective at range, the question becomes why put them in the middle of fights in the first place, especially when they're recognized as primary targets?

Hence our crusade to separate ECM from not only the combat ships, but other EWAR. Caldak has been helping (at some inconvenience to the fleet) by assigning what he calls TAM artists for our use who burn TACs in preparation for fights so that ECM is safe and can engage after the enemy is committed, at range where we can stay safe. O'Kais has been leading the ECM squad, and has made and is making more and more ECM specific TACs for us to use independently from he fleet. So far FCs have been supportive, but this is all really at their discretion. I will probably regurgitate this stuff again in a future fittings and tactics guide, which is all open to feedback an discussion. I'm just a guy with a commitment to ECM and a desire to see it live up to its potential in the Agony roam format.

Well ECM is OP, but so is the Dramiel, so I'm not about to throw stones ...

I'm all for engaging at will and at range, but late is only better than never.

I'm thinking every gate we go through you guys should have 2 unaligned tacs on opposite sides of the gate at 170km each. You warp to the first one at 100 to prepare for the fight, you warp to the 2nd at 0 if you need to get back to the gate. The roams tend to cross the same systems pretty regularly. It shouldn't take long to acquire the necessary bms. Is this roughly the path O'Kais is taking?

[John McGuirk]

Sorry of this is all a repeat, but I can't remember what's in posts an what's in PMs at this point... In my inexperienced opinion, the hulls with bonuses to EWAR that are applicable to the Agony roams would do best to fit for EWAR effectiveness and range, then be employed at that range. The combat ships can still contribute spare midslots for tracks, damps, webs, points, and scrams. Which is what makes separating out the track, web, point, and damp bonuses hulls a little problematic: you're gong to be trying to be managing two groups of each: the dedicated ones and the combat ships that just happen to have one of those modules fitted. I'd love to see it happen and work, but as it stands, generally track and damp groups are assigned at the start of roams then rarely mentioned. ECM on the other hand, is never split between dedicated and "combat ships that happen to fit a single unbonused jammer.". Which is why it's where O'Kais and I are starting, seeing if we can operate the ECM bonused hulls as an independent group. Good discussion, I will clearly post your ears off on this subject, regardless of how much seat time I actually have.

[John McGuirk]

I'm all for engaging at will and at range, but late is only better than never.

Someone wiser than me has pointed out a few reasons to be late to engage (and perhaps even appear on-grid). First, the enemy will have gone through their first round of target-calling, and the worker bees will be busily getting to work. ECM showing up after this means people are going to be switching targets to adapt. Second, if you're facing jammers, they are excellent jamming targets, and if you force them to jam first without being on-grid or in-range, there's a good chance they're committed to jamming someone other than your ECM for at least a cycle or two.

I'm thinking every gate we go through you guys should have 2 unaligned tacs on opposite sides of the gate at 170km each. You warp to the first one at 100 to prepare for the fight, you warp to the 2nd at 0 if you need to get back to the gate. The roams tend to cross the same systems pretty regularly. It shouldn't take long to acquire the necessary bms. Is this roughly the path O'Kais is taking?

O'Kais is keeping his methods secret from even ME, but I have to assume he's doing something similar. I'm personally starting my collection with unaligned off-grids at gates and stations and insta-undocks in a disposable Vigil before I commit to putting a Manticore in there for the detailed work. I haven't yet figured that out yet, but your idea sounds as good as any

[Kalar Freno]

Just to encourage any students who are thinking about entering, I don't think AkJon's fit (below) actually meets the objectives, as it's not capable of permajamming (which I'm interpreting to mean jamming with a probability of 1) the interceptors out to 110km (it manages a 0.99 probability, but that's not 1 ) It's a good starting place for your EFT warrioring, however Oh, and I know there are a lot of people on these boards who are very experienced in doing fits and things, but contests like this are valuable (incentivised!) opportunities for us newbies to learn a lot about fitting - I learned a great deal from playing around with different things in the last contest. It's very sapping to motivation if (far more experienced) people have already posted fits, especially when they don't actually qualify for the contest. You're welcome to give your fits at the end of the contest though As John mentioned, non-qualifying entries can also be submitted to him by PM - I'm sure he can post the best of those also at the end of the contest

I'll submit my own entry tomorrow sometime, when I've had a chance to think about it a bit more.

[Blackbird, ECM Contest 111022 Starter]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II


'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Medium Remote Armor Repair System I

Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Ionic Field Projector I

Actually this wouldn't win because it's not cap stable. But contests aside it's cap stable with 4 jammers running and won't cap out for >5min with all 5 running and I wouldn't trade my stronger jams, my longer optimal, or my longer lock for a smidgen of cap stability. (If you swap out 2 of your jammers (the gallente and amarr ones rate to be cheapest, so 'hypnos' and 'umbra') for meta 4 it's cap stable and meets all contest criteria.)

As for flying ECM, I'd love to do it again this time. However, part of the class objectives this time seem to require flying destroyers, so I think I'd better stick with doing what I'm supposed to

[John McGuirk]

I see a fair amount of views but not a lot of submissions.

On the off-chance (haha ECM jokes) that it's mechanics that are stopping people, here's a couple shortcuts that not everyone may be aware of to see if your fit meets the stated objectives.

How Many Cycles Your Modules Last Before Burning Out
The interpretation here is simply the time in the "Heat" column in EFT. Overheat any modules you want by right-clicking the checkmark next to them in EFT. Left-clicking toggles between normal activated and off, I believe. Control-clicking sets them offline. Anyhow, overheat any modules you think you need overheated. Look down that "Heat" column. What's the lowest time reported by any of your jammers? How many cycles is this? If it is 7 or greater, congratulations, you're meeting the objective. If the first module burns out before it gets 7 cycles off, time to mess around with the fit.

Finding the Jam Probability on the Falcon

Import this into EFT:

[Falcon, ECM Contest 111022 Opponent]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Have this fit and your Blackbird fit open. Click on Projected Effects at the bottom of the Falcon window to open up the Falcon's projected effects pane. From your Blackbird fit, drag the jammers that will be applied to the Falcon, one by one, over into the Falcon's projected effects pane. This takes into account the jam strength including overheating, skills, ship bonuses, and module bonuses, and correctly stacks these effects. It then correctly stacks multiple jammers if you drag multiple jammers into the pane. Since you have two identical fits working on your team, you can drag up to two of every module in your fit over.

Now the Falcon will have an extra line above it's Sensor Strength icon (the little target in the right-hand stats pane), showing jam percentage. It can be interpreted as the average amount of time the Falcon is jammed over an infinitely-long engagement, or as the single-cycle probability of jam. Divide this by 100 to find your answer.



Permajamming the Interceptors
For permajamming the interceptors, you are indeed looking for a probability of 1 at 110 km. If your fit has an optimal range of less than 110 km, the above method doesn't work (it assumes you're within optimal).
The equation to figure out your jam strength E at range Ra is

edit: stupid forum interprets "parentheses R parenthesis" as ®. I think I changed everything to Ra, but if you see R, it is target range. That is R = Ra.

E(Ra) = if{ Ra<=T, E0*0.5^[ (max{Ra-Op,0}/F)^2 ] }

where

E(Ra) is jam strength at range R
E0 is jam strength within optimal (the number reported in the show info of the module in EFT)
Op is jammer optimal range
F is jammer accuracy falloff
T is targeting range

If you KNOW Ra > Op (target is outside your optimal), and you know Ra < T (target is within your lock range), this simplifies to

E'(Ra) = E0*0.5^[ ( {Ra-Op}/F )^2 ]

Your jam chance is this divided by the target's sensor strength S, or

E'(Ra) = (E0/S)*0.5^[ ( {Ra-Op}/F )^2 ]

Hence you're looking to make sure that E'(110,000) >= 1 for your combination of parameters. Keep consistent units (all distances need to be in either meters or km).

For instance, against the Ares at 110 km, you solve (where Op and F are in meters):

(E0/10)*0.5^[ ( {110,000-Op}/F )^2 ]

to see if it's greater or equal to 1.

[Kalar Freno]

Permajamming the Interceptors
For permajamming the interceptors, you are indeed looking for a probability of 1 at 110 km. If your fit has an optimal range of less than 110 km, the above method doesn't work (it assumes you're within optimal).
The equation to figure out your jam strength E at range Ra is

edit: stupid forum interprets "parentheses R parenthesis" as ®. I think I changed everything to Ra, but if you see R, it is target range. That is R = Ra.

E(Ra) = if{ Ra<=T, E0*0.5^[ (max{Ra-Op,0}/F)^2 ] }

where

E(Ra) is jam strength at range R
E0 is jam strength within optimal (the number reported in the show info of the module in EFT)
Op is jammer optimal range
F is jammer accuracy falloff
T is targeting range

If you KNOW Ra > Op (target is outside your optimal), and you know Ra < T (target is within your lock range), this simplifies to

E'(Ra) = E0*0.5^[ ( {Ra-Op}/F )^2 ]

Your jam chance is this divided by the target's sensor strength S, or

E'(Ra) = (E0/S)*0.5^[ ( {Ra-Op}/F )^2 ]

Hence you're looking to make sure that E'(110,000) >= 1 for your combination of parameters. Keep consistent units (all distances need to be in either meters or km).

For instance, against the Ares at 110 km, you solve (where Op and F are in meters):

(E0/10)*0.5^[ ( {110,000-Op}/F )^2 ]

to see if it's greater or equal to 1.

If all the math looks really intimidating for this bit, there are some easy shortcuts when you're trying to permajam something. In order to get an ECM probability of 1 you must:

1) Have an optimal at least equal to range (110 here)
2) Have a jammer strength at least equal to the opposing ships sensor strength (9, 9 and 10 for the Stiletto, Crusader and Ares respectively)

That's it - if you meet those criteria, you've got them permajammed. Don't forget you can overheat for a temporary boost in jammer strength!

[John McGuirk]

Kalar's right. One of my two original fits has optimal range of over 110. I was trying to make sure the ignorance of the math wasn't stopping someone who had come up with the other fit from posting becasue they weren't sure they'd have all their bases covered permajamming into falloff I only posted all the steps because I'm somewhat of a completist. At the end of the day, the formula is there at the end, technically I think you can copy-paste it into Excel and change all the brackets/braces to parentheses, put your parameters in and get a number. edit: Kalar gets extra credit for pointing out (via PM, thanks for trying not to embarrass me in public) why the math above is not representative of how the game actually calculates jam chance if your target is outside the jammer's optimal range. The issue was introduced when I tried to come up with a contrived reason (permajamming outside optimal range, which I believe may be impossible) for forcing you to do something in your fit. For the purposes of the contest, assume the math above is correct, and I'll discuss the subtlety that Kalar pointed out after the contest.

[Alistone Malikite]

Thrifty people should note that meta4 jamming modules for gallente, amarr, (and sometimes minmatar) are significantly cheaper than Tech 2.

Hypnos signal distortion amp much cheaper than T2
hypnos ion field ECM much cheaper than T2
umbra white noies much cheaper than T2
enfeebling phase inversion usually about that same as T2 (slightly cheaper in Amarr, but slightly more expensive in Jita)

The caldari BZ spatial destabilizer is the one that is significantly more expensive than T2 and even the T2 variant tends to be more expensive that other T2 jammers. IMO this is due to the popularity of this jammer. If they have an "extra" ECM slot most people prefer caldari b/c they are both hard to jam (as a race they have higher sensor strength) and they are very common targets (counterjamming enemy ECM ships).

This is also true for many other modules like armor plates, MWDs, ship scanners, smartbombs(usually), heavy neuts/nos, small neuts/nos, etc. If you're shopping a lot of times its very "worth"while to price check the meta4 variant to see if you can save some isk. Also, if your fit requires using very expensive meta4 items due to fitting requirements you should consider using implant(s) so you can fit T2 instead

(I'm looking at you "medium unstable power fluctuator". I'd prefer to use a 1m isk PG2 implant so I had PG to fit T2 rather than pay 14m for a meta4 neut)

Another random bit of knowledge is that meta1 and meta2 jammers are usually cheaper than meta0 and provide better jamming. Even if you're doing a cheapfit throwaway ECM boat you should use meta1 or meta2 jammers since they're cheaper than meta0.

[Othran]

Problem with PG implants is they use slot 6 which means no cheap speed boost implants. Not a big deal in the context of this thread but definitely worth bearing in mind.

[Kalar Freno]

Here is my entry - I came up with it a couple of days ago, but I was holding off entering in the hope that someone else might step up... Go on have a go! [Blackbird, Kalar ECM Comp Entry] 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM ECM - Phase Inverter II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Caldari Navy Widowmaker Heavy Missile Medium Remote Armor Repair System I Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I Medium Ionic Field Projector I Between the two BBs, they have 2 racial jammers for each of the possible interceptors, so regardless which combination they face, they should be able to put a single matching jammer on each. Jammers have an optimal of 111, and a strength of over 9, which is the sensor strength of the Stiletto and the Crusader, so they will permajam those without any overheating. The Ares has a sensor strength of 10, so any BBs targeting Ares will need to overheat their gal racial jammer - that is sufficient to permajam it. So two jammers have been used on interceptors, the rest get put on the falcon. In order to get the best possible jam probability, both pilots will overheat their top caldari jammer. In addition, any pilot who is not jamming an Ares can also overheat their other caldari jammer (the sequence of mid mods is important). This gives the following prob of jamming the falcon each cycle: 0 Ares on the field: 0.784 1 Ares on the field: 0.773 2 Ares on the field: 0.763 A pilot overheating both Caldari jammers can go 3 mins (= 9 cycles) without burning out a module, and one who is overheating 1 Cal and 1 Gal jammer can go 3:20 (=10 cycles). The boat is cap stable with all jammers running and MWD (and remote repper) switched off. Cap stability could be additionally improved by switching to all M4 jammers, but the T2 ones are generally cheaper for Cal/Min (this is apparently only true for Min jammers in Jita - I don't usually shop anywhere else).

[John McGuirk]

Excellent work! Kalar takes the prize.

He's taken advantage of a loophole that I didn't anticipate because I constructed my fake scenario poorly. He didn't know it was exploiting a loophole, he just saw the constraints differently, which means that his fit meets all the criteria, but just misses on one of the points I was hoping to have people discover as they tried fits for this contest.

As such, there's going to be a bonus round, with the prize being a coveted spot in the Association of Old Blackbirds ECM Squad for the upcoming Wolfpacks roam. Or just public recognition...

How would you modify Kalar's fit (and why) if the objectives were changed in the following way:

Please refrain from posting if you're ineligible or if I've already told you the answer. Again, the point is for people to muck around with fits to discover interesting (in my opinion) things. I tried to run a little contest rather than just blast out facts because I firmly believe that people learn more by doing and discovering than by seeing facts.

1.You have intel that the enemy gang you will be chasing has a single Falcon with a Gravimetric Backup Array II fitted. Between your two identically-fit Blackbirds working together, you must have better than 0.7 single-cycle jam probability, and must keep this up for at least 7 cycles before ANY jammer burns out.

2.You will be flying gang support at range, hopefully out of harm's way. Between your two identically-fit Blackbirds working together, you must be able to perma-jam any two Stilettos, Ares, or and Crusaders (six total interceptors, two of each) out to > 110 km to keep your main fleet from being pinned. That is, it could be two Stilettos, two Ares, two Crusaders, or a mix, but there are two total. None of these are fitted with ECCM or Backup Sensors. You must keep this up for at least 7 cycles before ANY jammer burns out.

3.The fit is permanently cap-stable with ALL fitted jammers running continuously. That is , there are additional targets beyond the Falcon and interceptors, and all your jammers are committed and cycling. The Remote Armor Repair System is considered onlined but not activated for this objective, as is a Microwarp Drive if you've chosen one as your prop mod.


All objectives must be met simultaneously. That is, your two pilots jam the Falcon with better than a 0.7 probability each cycle, AND permajam any two all six of the specified interceptors out to > 110 km. The fit must be able to do this for at least 7 ECM cycles before ANY jammer burns out.

edited thanks to Kalar's sharp eyes

[Kalar Freno]

All objectives must be met simultaneously. That is, your two pilots jam the Falcon with better than a 0.7 probability each cycle, AND permajam any two of the specified interceptors out to > 110 km. The fit must be able to do this for at least 7 ECM cycles before ANY jammer burns out.

Just to clarify, I think John meant to change this bit also - it should read:

All objectives must be met simultaneously. That is, your two pilots jam the Falcon with better than a 0.7 probability each cycle, AND permajam any two all six of the specified interceptors out to > 110 km. The fit must be able to do this for at least 7 ECM cycles before ANY jammer burns out.

[John McGuirk]

He's right, post edited. Thank you.

[John McGuirk]

To close the loop on this, the bonus question was intended to highlight one more set of advantages in using Meta 4 jammers over the T2 jammers. We covered the fact that Meta 4 jammers have the same jam strength, optimal range, and falloff as T2 jammers, while being easier to fit and drawing less cap for activation. These are all important consderations, but there are two properties related to overheating that also make Meta 4 modules better than T2: they produce less heat and their base cost is far lower. This means that statistically, they can be overheated longer for the same amount of damage, and cost almost an order of magnitude less to repair for the same amount of heat damage. I've confirmed this for Nanite Repair Paste (which suffers somewhat from rounding as Paste is consumed in integer units) and I believe it applies to station repairs too, since I think they're off base cost. For both of these parameters, they are equivalent to Meta 0 modules. that is, there is no graduated ramp as you move up in Meta level, there is simply a T1 value (for Meta 0 through Meta 4) and a T2 value. In my opinion, the ability to overheat for ~ 25% longer (loosely based off EFT numbers) is the more important of the two effects, but it's nice to save a little cash (or have to carry less Paste in the hold). Did anyone that was eligible (other than Kalar) get anything out of this? Did you try fits? Was it too convoluted? Prize too low? No one cares about ECM?

[Othran]

Heh did Kalar win again? He's doing well from these contests

[Kalar Freno]

Heh did Kalar win again? He's doing well from these contests

What can I say? If you're the only one to enter...

Not really something you can be massively proud of though ("I won two competitions in which I was the only entrant!" )

[John McGuirk]

If he can just find a contest on how to make people run more contests, he can plex his game time and never have to pay another real-world isk.

[Othran]

Heh all he needs now is a Covops course and he's sorted for another course - he got a Kitsune, Buzzard and Manticore from me The man is on a roll...

[Xolanie]

Hey All,

I know the comp is probably closed but im gona throw in my 2 cents...

This is practically the fit I have though in reallity I drop a Signal Distortion Amp for a Damage Control II,

[Blackbird, PvP BB]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
10MN Afterburner II
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Umbra' I White Noise ECM
'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Medium Remote Hull Repair System I

Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I

Stats:
150Km Targeting range
ECM Optimal range 111+80
Cap stable at 52%
11.73 Individual Jammer strength

Jam Chance (Single racial jammer) from each BB:
Falcon with 1 ECCM II - 21.37% (2xracial gives 38.17%)
Stiletto - 100%
Ares - 100%
Crusader - 100%

Figures based on all lvl5 skills, stats from EFT and EvE Jamming Calculator v1.2 (Click Me)

Xol