12 replies to this topic

[Gizznitt]

Rumor has it that on Sisi, the titan doomsday has been changed to ONLY work on capitals..... I wonder what other changes they are exploring....

[t011phr33]

Looks like they are changing the titans main guns sig resolution to match caps also. So still should be able to one or two shot dreads and carriers. With the 5 minute siege timer of the dreads they are talking about and the ten minute DD timer on the titan dreads are now a threat against titans. With moms not being able to field anything but fighters/bombers forces cap fleets to bring support with them giving us more of a chance for a good fight

[DaDutchDude]

According to Kugu the doomsday descriptions now include the following note:

Notes: This weapon can only fire on ships that are capital-sized or larger. After firing, you will be immobile for thirty seconds and will be unable to activate your jump drive or cloaking device for ten minutes.

To me, it sounds like a good change to DDs. There is however also a discussion about turret tracking, which some consider still to be too good against subcapitals.

If you have supercap brawl fit (max tank no dmg mods nor tracking enchanters) you can not track battleships that are moving (they are always moving). If you fit braveman fit (no tank, 2 tracking computers and 3 tracking enchanters, 3 dmg mods) you kill a bs every 10 secs and you can also 1 shot really bad bc pilots. Alas you can only do the braveman fit if you are fighting an enemy that is too coward to counter drop supers on you (like goons) or you will get put in the 0wnzone.

tl dr; the dd nerf doesnt change much in the titan vs subcap department. If this is the only supercap nerf in ~winter is coming~ the rage will reach epic levels x)

Okay propagandas serious post of titan tracking.

This is just numbers, im not really into the whole nerf titans dont nerf titans discussion:
- Max skilled pilot in normal fit hellcat (pulse baddon) tracking: 0.069 rad/sec
- Max skilled pilot in normal fit pulse avatar: 0.0053 rad/sec

I just checked this ingame since im really bad at math and cant be bothered to use eft. But notice the extra 0 infront of the titan tracking. A normal fitted pulse avatar can not hit a normal fitt abaddon that have transversal within 50 km range. That means it can hit coward alpha maelstroms that align away from it at their medium retard range ~70 km range. It can not hit close range bc fleets, close range bs fleets, aligned lr bcs, lr hacs, proper sniper bs fleets. So yea, maybe one should change fleet setup instead of crying but what do i know v0v.

Sup, another serious post brought to you by your favorite poster, cya again in a month.

For copy & paste, this is the URL to the discussion there:

http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?11640-DD-Nerf-on-Sisi-arrived

The biggest issue I think that's still lingering is the log off timers vs EHP. Unless that is addressed, supercaps are still pretty broken to me. I don't think that the titan doomsday change will be the only change to supercaps though, just the first one (noticed) on Sisi, and more will come. On the other hand, the biggest problem really is the high inflow of illegitimate Isk and the fact that the games scales too well (i.e. blob always wins) that breaks the game, and any changes to supercaps won't in the end fix the game itself.

Edit:
Actually, the following details coming an informal discussion of a member of goonswarm with a dev at the PAX conference point in the exact direction as the current change, and then add a bunch more:

Titans
A disendowment would be in order with less Effective Hit Points, Nerfed damage from Doomsday modules and significantly less tracking for the rest of the gun modules.

Super Carriers
They would be limited to deploy only Fighters / Fighters bombers, apart from loosing the ability to deploy regular Drones, an Effective Hit Point nerf would be in order too.

Dreadnoughts
They would be buffed up, permitting them to dish out more damage and the siege module cycle would change from the current to five (5) minutes.

Carriers
There would be a bonus for this class’ Ship Maintenance Array, the cargo space were you can store un-packaged ships, apparently it is in CCP’s interest to encourage the use of Carriers to move stuff around.

Source:

http://www.evenews24.com/2011/08/30/rumour-possible-upcoming-super-capital-changes-on-october/

Edit 2: Oh and of course, usual "this could all be a troll / an experiment so it's only true when it's on tranquility" disclaimer applies of course.

[Bamar]

A step in the right direction. Subcaps not really being able to dent supercaps sucks, but as long as supercaps can't dent subcaps either it's at least a standoff.

[Mental Mantis]

Interesting read....I actually read an entire DDD post!!!! omgwtf

[Othran]

We'll see. I don't have a lot of faith that significant nerfs will make it to TQ, I reckon "lobbying" against the changes will water them down. Carrier potentially getting bigger maintenance bay doesn't sound good for the future of jump freighters, quite glad I divested myself of JF pilot/ship last month. Still at least its FiS stuff even if they do make an almighty balls-up of the changes

[Othran]

Dev blog is up. You are going to LOVE this bit :

"It has been said that spaceships are serious business and they damn well should be. We are changing the logoff mechanics in such a way that as long as your enemies are actively engaged in fighting you, logging off is not going to save your ship."

I don't know enough about the other ships to comment on whether the changes are sane or not.

There's a fair amount of wailing over on eve-o anyway

[DaDutchDude]

Yup. Mostly nice stuff. Log-off change is MUCH deeper then I thought it would be, but I like it. No change to carrier maintenance bay makes me a bit sad, and I'm hoping dreads will get a bit of a buff. I do expect to see a lot more dreads in semi-suicidal squads ganking supercaps now. I guess the alt will be training for a dread after all. The change of removing drones from dreads is awesome BTW, because the risk of bumping when deploying sentries from dreads is much bigger then you would expect, although there's a chance that the Moros will be pretty meh now.

[Othran]

I may be a teensy-weensy bit biased after the weekends fights but removing the ability to self-destruct anything other than a pod would be very welcome In fact just make it that while you are aggressed you cannot initiate self-destruct. That'd work.

[Silas]

I may be a teensy-weensy bit biased after the weekends fights but removing the ability to self-destruct anything other than a pod would be very welcome In fact just make it that while you are aggressed you cannot initiate self-destruct. That'd work.

I agree... self destruct is pointless. But really, what's the problem? The ship still dies...

[DaDutchDude]

Oh yeah, I expect supers self-destructing in droves and then even smug-posting about how they didn't generate a killmail. To me, the mechanic of self-destructing is silly, but realy, as long as people loose their expensive toys, I'll be happy.

Unfortunately, there's already some back-pedaling (source):

In this thread, I've read several very good reasons why the fighter change is a bad idea. You are right. Fighters should stay the way they are. The change would be unfair for carriers.

The poor performance of Minmatar capital ships is being looked at and was already being looked at before the blog was posted.

Pointing out flaws and issues with the balancing plan is very much appreciated. I will look into the issues and make changes where they are needed.

Once this hits SISI, I will start a thread in the test server feedback forums. Your concerns will be listened to and acted upon if necessary.

One thing I didn't mention earlier: I was really hoping this change would hit before the winter expansion.

[Othran]

I may be a teensy-weensy bit biased after the weekends fights but removing the ability to self-destruct anything other than a pod would be very welcome In fact just make it that while you are aggressed you cannot initiate self-destruct. That'd work.

I agree... self destruct is pointless. But really, what's the problem? The ship still dies...

You can expect to lose a few ships taking down a cap so the problem is that the self-destruct denies you the loot. That forces you to fund the replacements in a different way. I'm not naive enough to believe that loot covers the losses but a few faction drops can make a big difference. Self destruct leaves you with whatever was loaded into modules and nothing else.

The killmails aren't a problem to me as I don't bother looking at kill/lossmails now - not unless something odd happened. They are obviously a problem to some people though - we wouldn't see people "protecting" their efficiency by self-destructing otherwise.

Yeah I noticed the backtrack Dutch - I'm expecting much much more backtracking TBH.

[glepp]

Oh yeah, I expect supers self-destructing in droves and then even smug-posting about how they didn't generate a killmail. To me, the mechanic of self-destructing is silly, but realy, as long as people loose their expensive toys, I'll be happy.

Unfortunately, there's already some back-pedaling (source):

In this thread, I've read several very good reasons why the fighter change is a bad idea. You are right. Fighters should stay the way they are. The change would be unfair for carriers.

The poor performance of Minmatar capital ships is being looked at and was already being looked at before the blog was posted.

Pointing out flaws and issues with the balancing plan is very much appreciated. I will look into the issues and make changes where they are needed.

Once this hits SISI, I will start a thread in the test server feedback forums. Your concerns will be listened to and acted upon if necessary.

One thing I didn't mention earlier: I was really hoping this change would hit before the winter expansion.

Well, actually i think this is a result of CCP not understanding their own tracking algorithms. As sig resolution of a weapon is important in determining whether a gun hits or not, a change to sig res of 400 would mean that Einherjis orbiting a BS with sig radius 400 at 1km and 300m/s would miss 90% of the time. That's opposed to about 30-40% of the time at present. So that change was a huge nerf to carriers ability to deal damage to BS sized targets. They could get by it by upping their tracking, but then we're back at square 1 again. Better would probably be to change orbit range/speed.

The way it should work, imho, is that tracking should be independent of gun sig res, and sig res only used to determine damage once a target is hit (BS sized weapons deal reduced damage to frigate hulls, same as with missiles (explosion radius)). But that's not how it works.

So that particular backpedal is a good thing. Now they just need to reduce the cap needs of blasters/railguns by 5% or up the Moros' cap recharge and all is fine and dandy in the jungle. OH, and give the supers a bigger fighter bay so they don't have to use a JF to carry around fighters/bombers for them. Seriously, the logistics hassle of that proposal is just huge.

Oh yeah, and they also need to make titans and SCs immune to friendly ewar like tracking links and RSBs.