34 replies to this topic

[cr8r]

Agony is always looking to improve its classes. To that end, we always ask for feedback from the students at the end of the class. Let us know what you liked, disliked, felt we covered well, too much detail, not enough, etc.

[Little Johnny]

Let's do it again!!! Enjoyed the class/roam, even losing 2 ships and 2 pods (got to love warp bubbles). (Might add this happened after 1/2 the roam departed) Learned a lot and looking forward to roaming as an Alumni in the future and for the PVP-WOLFPACKS class. Thought the class was very good that even PVP noob gain very much helpful information. Been looking for something like this a long time. Keep up the good work.

[fengming]

I liked it, indeed a ton of useful info and good practice trying to get around in 0.0 and learning how important good communications are (it remembers me the flying lessons.. communications being more difficult and important than the real flight) I know it hasn't been the most successful roam in terms of the pilots we faced, so I don't have the whole picture, but I have to say that when we fight, the ones of us that were slower were unable to even shoot their weapons. Any suggestions on that for future flights? (My tristan had a 1004m/s max speed with the AB on, so, not being the fastest I wouldn't say my ship was too slow)

[sovai]

I really liked the course. I learned a lot both from the class and from the roam. Thanks very much to Corywyn and Dzu for the class and to Sofai for the roam! As for suggestions, the only thing I can think of is that it would be helpful to practice engaging another fleet in some way. We are split in to tackle, tracking disruption and sensor damp groups basically... practicing engaging enemies by group, getting in to range, etc might be worth trying in practice a few times before heading on a roam. Otherwise it was a hell of a lot of fun and was easily worth the 20mil. Thanks again!

[VenUri]

Agony is always looking to improve its classes. To that end, we always ask for feedback from the students at the end of the class. Let us know what you liked, disliked, felt we covered well, too much detail, not enough, etc.

[VenUri]

Good roam. Very well disciplined fleet. FC, scouts and skirmishers came across very professional. Breaks and return to hi-sec were timed just right.

[AkJon Ferguson]

Thanks to skirmishers and Dzu.

Good roam. Almost didn't go because of the MT controversy and because I overslept but glad I made it.

Nice quiet comms. Good FC'ing from Sof, as usual. Only bummer was missing the Cynabal kill (too far to burn to and too close to warp to.)

Might even be my last roam in the old Dramiel (depending on how hard and how soon CCP hits her with the nerf bat.) If it is, she had a pretty good run and went out on a high note.

[Agnes Nitt]

Great class and roam. Great lecturers, Fc and skirmishers. I can't wait to get back as alumni in some ceptor because my damn rifter was to slow for most of the targets that we met. Also, I'm sure that one day I would like to be a full agony member. Thank you all.

[Esbear]

Targets in the roam were mostly ganks and single opponents these quickly realize they have to run or die. If there had been a viable fight against a larger gang there would have been much more opportunity for the slower ships to catch up with the primary target and start shooting. As it happens most of the targets tried running. Shooting something is only part of the pvp-roam. Equally important are traveling, learning how to survive just a little better and how to actually find or avoid targets.

Thanks to skirmishers and Dzu.

No love for dictor pilots?

[Angelio]

Hey all have really enjoyed the class and roam. Lot of useful stuff has been seed that I did read on materials but didn’t pay to mach attention. Only a few suggestions for next class; People in fleet should always have scouts and skirmishers on there watch list as it happened last night I was in Kestrel with AB and no speed upgrade in low slot so after I missed two first kill due to only cca 800m/s speed and ships popped before I can lock them and lay a hit I developed new tactic. When we have a kill order on lending I hit AB and go opposite direction of target and than warp on faster fleet member when he is in front of the target due to orbiting. That made me lend directly on target due to few sec ship need to warp and he was in my point/web/weapons range. By my opinion this can be a good tactic to catch up targets that are to too fast until someone hit them with scram or web and even then I could not get in range fast enough to shoot at them as they were fast killed by the fleet. One more thing on the first day, instructor should consider lunching some probes or have someone m8 flaying a ship around and show in practise how to track him down by D-scanner. I know how to use it so the lecture was clear for me but if it had been my first time I'm not sure I would have understand. I’m looking forward to next roam with Agony as student or alumni. Fly safe Angel PS: sorry for any misspelling English is not my first language

[Cross Barret]

Thx to all the agony people involved, this was really a great experience. The roam was great and I will definitely join these roams in the future. All's well that ends in a fiery ball of death and destruction. An appropriate end to an awesome roam

[Angelio]

One more thing I forget plz update you reading material on TS and Fleet manager tool. I had some problems with it yesterday as I could not make it to show my name instead of some random figures. At some point during the roam I close my IG browser and when I reopen F-manager it give me info I wasn’t in the fleet but I could see myself by the designation FM give to me. So when FC asked to remove our self from FM when we leave fleet I could not do that. Just to mention when I thy do the same thing in Cory fleet during the lecture (first day) and it all went without a hitch. Angel

[kalamaner]

had massive headache, but managed to power through it and enjoy the fun, soz could not stay any longer but thought my head was going to explode. the roam is not all about getting on KM, its about trying out what you have learnt etc, If you l8er on ever fly a logi you will hardly ever get on KM, its al about working as a team to make nice explosions. So if you on a KM it a nice extra will try to come to next as a scout or skirmisher next time, seems we needed a few more due to peeps losing ships Kala

[keacte]

One more thing I forget plz update you reading material on TS and Fleet manager tool.

I had some problems with it yesterday as I could not make it to show my name instead of some random figures.
At some point during the roam I close my IG browser and when I reopen F-manager it give me info I wasn’t in the fleet but I could see myself by the designation FM give to me.
So when FC asked to remove our self from FM when we leave fleet I could not do that.

Just to mention when I thy do the same thing in Cory fleet during the lecture (first day) and it all went without a hitch.

Angel

With regard to the fleet manager issues that you were experiencing, this is due to the IGB changes from previous patches, it used to be much simpler - to get around this, from memory do the following...

• open your ship fitting for your active ship,
• drag the ship name into an open chat window, (it will appear yellow, and underlined as a link to your fitting)
• right click on the yellow link, and select "open in new tab" which will open the IGB,
• select and copy the browser url at the top,
• open the fleet manager, and click join fleet,
• paste that url into the fleet manager tool and click OK

You should then be able to see your fitting, with your name associated to that fitting.

Hope this helps when you come along as Alumni next time for some serious internet spaceship flying! PEW PEW!

[Corywyn]

One more thing I forget plz update you reading material on TS and Fleet manager tool.

I had some problems with it yesterday as I could not make it to show my name instead of some random figures.
At some point during the roam I close my IG browser and when I reopen F-manager it give me info I wasn’t in the fleet but I could see myself by the designation FM give to me.
So when FC asked to remove our self from FM when we leave fleet I could not do that.

Just to mention when I thy do the same thing in Cory fleet during the lecture (first day) and it all went without a hitch.

Angel

With regard to the fleet manager issues that you were experiencing, this is due to the IGB changes from previous patches, it used to be much simpler - to get around this, from memory do the following...

• open your ship fitting for your active ship,
• drag the ship name into an open chat window, (it will appear yellow, and underlined as a link to your fitting)
• right click on the yellow link, and select "open in new tab" which will open the IGB,
• select and copy the browser url at the top,
• open the fleet manager, and click join fleet,
• paste that url into the fleet manager tool and click OK

You should then be able to see your fitting, with your name associated to that fitting.

Hope this helps when you come along as Alumni next time for some serious internet spaceship flying! PEW PEW!

that's exactly what he's talking about, CCP broke that option
There's a work-around but I'll probably edit the wiki soon™.

[keacte]

One more thing I forget plz update you reading material on TS and Fleet manager tool.

I had some problems with it yesterday as I could not make it to show my name instead of some random figures.
At some point during the roam I close my IG browser and when I reopen F-manager it give me info I wasn’t in the fleet but I could see myself by the designation FM give to me.
So when FC asked to remove our self from FM when we leave fleet I could not do that.

Just to mention when I thy do the same thing in Cory fleet during the lecture (first day) and it all went without a hitch.

Angel

With regard to the fleet manager issues that you were experiencing, this is due to the IGB changes from previous patches, it used to be much simpler - to get around this, from memory do the following...

• open your ship fitting for your active ship,
• drag the ship name into an open chat window, (it will appear yellow, and underlined as a link to your fitting)
• right click on the yellow link, and select "open in new tab" which will open the IGB,
• select and copy the browser url at the top,
• open the fleet manager, and click join fleet,
• paste that url into the fleet manager tool and click OK

You should then be able to see your fitting, with your name associated to that fitting.

Hope this helps when you come along as Alumni next time for some serious internet spaceship flying! PEW PEW!

that's exactly what he's talking about, CCP broke that option
There's a work-around but I'll probably edit the wiki soon™.

Oh sorry! - it seems its changed again...! Apologies!

[Starp Kroakar]

I liked the class especially the roam. This was my second try at attending the class, so I've had the materials for quite some time to read and later re-read, so I knew the stuff from the 'classroom' part of the class pretty well already. The roam was great for me though, good exposure to all the tasks that you've got to keep up with in PVP.

For the course itself, I'd like to hear about 'best practices' for what to do and when, i.e. checklists to keep in mind:

• When approaching a gate
• When approaching a station
• When being pursued by a ...
• When pursuing a ...
• When a bubble is in use ...
• Etc.

Good routines for use of DS and probes would help too.

Thanks for the class. I hope to be joining roams in the future and I'm looking forward to the next WOLFPACK class.

[Cynn Ayres]

Thank you Agony for the refresher training on Saturday, for me it was on target with what I needed to get quickly back up to speed. Material was well presented and the instructors gave us plenty of time to exercise the material so everyone could get comfortable with it. The reading material and the material covered in the class was what I would expect from a basic course. The roam was very well behaved, I enjoyed it, even though we didn't run into any big battles. I got a chance to get comfortable again operating in a fleet. There are some things I did walk a way with, namely making sure I get our tacklers etc on the watch list so in the future I can quickly warp to them to save time. I am sure there are other things I got from the practical portion of the class but what that tells me is I need more time out exercising what the class presented us. I am looking forward to more chances to roam with you guys. That being said... WTB more Agony roams! WTB Wolfpack training course! Thanks again.

[Tsuiban]

This was my first roam since taking the class (I couldn't go on the roam with my original class. It was great seeing stuff actually put into action rather than just talked about. I had originally discussed the idea of a wolfpack of frigates with my original nonNPC corp, but this was so far above what I had thought about. Okay, enough gushing.

Oh, please add the following to the kill board:

1 DI-500 router, killed during the first nature break when my foot entangled in a wire and yanked it off its shelf, which is why I missed the rest of the roam... I think that is a solo kill for me, but I admit that the pod got away.

Roam critiques:

• A great example of how a fleet should work. Radio discipline, fleet cohesion, organization, scouts.
• A little bit of a slow start, but I expect that starting up happens faster when you have a group of people that have "been there, done that" before.
• Not sure if this is usual, but during the first one (going "down" the pipe from tanoo), I think I used up about 9 rounds of ammo. All the targets (except one) were out of lock range and, by the time they were in lock range, they were dead. Is that normal?
• I realize the following will drastically increase losses, not sure if it's a good idea:

Perhaps breaking the fleet into smaller groups when it seems that targets are smaller and fewer/far between. Obviously, don't let the wings get too far away from each other so that they can be mutually supporting if something bigger comes up.

I want to reiterate that it was a fantastic experience, helping to solidify in my head many of the things that were talked about in class, and I'm looking forward to the next set of classes, especially cov-ops, scouting, etc.!

[dzu]

No love for dictor pilots?

We loves our dictor pilots

Oh, please add the following to the kill board:

1 DI-500 router, killed during the first nature break when my foot entangled in a wire and yanked it off its shelf, which is why I missed the rest of the roam... I think that is a solo kill for me, but I admit that the pod got away.

[Deran]

No love for dictor pilots?

We loves our dictor pilots

Also thanks to the guys that repped my Heretic without being asked. It's good to see everyone on the ball and the watch list at work

[Ryvre]

Roam and class were good thanks guys. I think that the scanner stuff was good and the problem with looking for someone to practice is that it tends to take some people ALOT longer than others and could lead to slowing down the class (that has been my experience of similiar things anyway). With regards to the roam. I think a great addition to the class, though I do not know how practical it is would be for us to split the fleet in half and fight eachother. This would be great practice of real combat before the roam and also get some people over the stigma of losing that first ship Certainly something I would like atleast. Thanks guys. Look forward to a skirmishing class!

[Esbear]

Hey all have really enjoyed the class and roam.

Lot of useful stuff has been seed that I did read on materials but didn’t pay to mach attention.

Only a few suggestions for next class;

People in fleet should always have scouts and skirmishers on there watch list as it happened last night I was in Kestrel with AB and no speed upgrade in low slot so after I missed two first kill due to only cca 800m/s speed and ships popped before I can lock them and lay a hit I developed new tactic.

When we have a kill order on lending I hit AB and go opposite direction of target and than warp on faster fleet member when he is in front of the target due to orbiting. That made me lend directly on target due to few sec ship need to warp and he was in my point/web/weapons range.

By my opinion this can be a good tactic to catch up targets that are to too fast until someone hit them with scram or web and even then I could not get in range fast enough to shoot at them as they were fast killed by the fleet.

One more thing on the first day, instructor should consider lunching some probes or have someone m8 flaying a ship around and show in practise how to track him down by D-scanner. I know how to use it so the lecture was clear for me but if it had been my first time I'm not sure I would have understand.

I’m looking forward to next roam with Agony as student or alumni.

Fly safe
Angel

PS: sorry for any misspelling English is not my first language

Occasionally during class a list is called for by the FC for skirmishers, covops and any other persons the fc finds important enough besides himself/herself to qualify for a position on the watch list.

The tactic you mentioned, burning away from a target rather then towards it, I used myself a couple of times so I could get a bubble or scram on targets. This is best done if a target is far away, likely faster but not within 150 km warpable distance. Generally we don't expect our basic students to do that but very nicely done!

In one other occasion I noticed a target aligned towards the sun. Warping to the sun and then back at range to take into account the distance covered during the warp to one of the closest tacklers (check before you warp off!) also lands you close to a target.

Both of these things we don't teach in pvp-basic although you might see them during the roam. They are very handy to know but you have to know what you are doing. There is already enough for new players to learn on, for some, their very first pvp experience. The same applies for the d-scan and probing. They are more advanced tactics and are actually taught in other classes.

Eventually it all comes together in our pvp-advanced where we do let class members shoot it out against each other in small gangs.

[eskapi]

I really liked the class, especially the roam was extremely exciting but also exhausting. Thanks to all agony members who made this class possible. What could have been better, was the first day. Most of the stuff you were telling us is already written in the preparation materials, if you read all this stuff, first day was just repetition. You could give this a more applied approach by splitting class into groups and then dont talk about i.e. ewar, but actually do it. Let the pupils see and feel how it is to be jammed, scrammed or webbed, and also do it vice versa. So everybody should get an idea how it is to be under ewar and how it looks like when you do it to someone else. Like you did with fleet movements, you did not just only talk about, you really did it with us together... With the words of an old chinese guy some centuries ago: Tell me and I will forget, show me and I might remember, let me do and I will master it! Looking forward to the next action with you.

[Xi'ang]

First off, thank you to Corywyn and Dzu for the teaching portion and to Sofai for leading the roam! I was very impressed with the coordination shown during the roam, the way the scouts fanned out across the systems and acted as eyes for the FC, transmitting important intel in a timely manner. It was all very precise and effective. Perhaps a bit more discussion on how to use the directional scanner for situational awareness and to hunt down targets? It's not so important in fleet maneuvers, but can mean life or death in solo and small group conflicts. I will definitely be back for future roams and for the more advanced classes. As a side note, it was a surprising and welcome change to hear female voices in chat. I always thought all the female pilots in Eve were cross-dressing male players.