19 replies to this topic

[glepp]

The objective of PVP Basic is to give the student a first taste of nullsec pvp and an introduction to fleet manouvers. Another objective is to get the student over the fear of losing ships and taking pvp for what it is, a fun and non-scary part of Eve. This was my first PVP-Basic roam as FC, i hope my inexperience with the setting didn't show to badly. As an Agony FC, I have FCd numerous fleets, from T1 frigate roams to Drake gangs and Nano-HAC fleets. The limitations and strengths of a frigate fleet means you have to pick your battles a little differently, but all in all it's a pretty potent gang concept, even if we couldn't demonstrate this fully last night. We formed up the fleet in Berta, it took us about half an hour to get rolling, which is decent. About 10 Agony members came along in Skirmish inties, Covops, Chaser tackle and dictors. About 15 alumni were there too, thanks for bringing your ships. First we got damps and tracks sorted, and ended up having a good fleet composition. Then we did some TS excercises and got you all talking. Undocked in Berta and headed for Curse, which sadly was very quiet this evening. Usually, there's a couple of BC gangs roaming around, and i was hoping we'd find one or two to tangle with, but no luck. We managed to lose a skirmisher to a Taranis 100 off the a gate, so that we were unable to warp straight up to him. When i tried bouncing the fleet, i managed to warp myself instead, so we lost the chance for that kill. I wish CCP would put the "warp fleet" option on the same spot on all the RMB menus... Moved us down the pipe towards G-O. The pipe is usually camped, but no luck tonight. In G-O there was a bunch of missionrunners, but we were unsuccessful in catching them. Moved us back up towards 0SHT and Catch. There was a small gang moving around in the D87 pocket, but they were safed up due to our superior numbers, so no luck. I then took us down towards HED-GP. HED is an entrypoint from highsec, and AAA has jumpbridges there. It's usually camped by Bricksquad, and my hope was that we could find a decent fight there. On the way to HED, we lost a covops and a skirmisher in WD- to a clever bubble camp. Basically, AAA had a 7-8 man gang i SV5 and eyes in 9KOE. Whenver someone went into WD- from 9KOE, they would find local empty, and thus think it safe to warp gate to gate. However, there was a drag bubble on the SV5 gate, and the AAA gang would enter local about ten seconds after the scout/skirmisher, and then race a Dramiel to the bubble, catching the target. I've seen this a couple of times before and it works very well. Too bad we sucked. We moved on to HED-GP, went to a midsafe. One of our scouts had the AAA Jump bridge bookmarked, and i wanted to try and catch some ships on the bridge. We gangwarped to the bridge, and there was a couple of targets there, but they managed to jump through before we could catch them. Frustrated, i ordered a bubble up, which was a HUGE mistake. I've burned around POSes before in my AB frigates, pretty much unharmed, so i figured we could tank their guns with good transversal, but it turned out we couldn't. We killed a lone Zealot and then lost about 10-15 frigs to the POS guns before we got out of the bubble and warped off... /o\ Sorry about that little brainfart there. Without the bubble, we'd have capped the Zealot and warped off with only a couple of losses. Anyway, we then warped off, regrouped and got some reps for the injured. One of our scouts called out that there was a fight going on at the Keberz gate in HED, so we warped over to a TAC. There was a cane and some bombers fighting on the gate. Warped us down, and we grabbed and killed the cane and a malediciton, before warping off. A sniper tempest was there too, and we tried to get a drop on him, but he was alligned and warped off just before the point landed. One of our dictors also decided to burn towards him and got oneshotted even with decent transversal. However, a dictor with the MWD on has a signature radius of a small moon, so he was easy pickings even for the slowtracking arty tempest. Moved us off out of HED, into SV5, and dallied a bit to long on the gate after leaving without proper eyes behind us. A Tengu came through and agressed us. At this point, i should have warped us off, gotten eyes on his gang and all, but i was being a bit reckless. What should have happened is that we should have had our whole fleet intact, not half dead to pos guns, and then moved a system or two up, getting them to chase us. Then a dictor should have been cloaked on an ingate and we could have split their gang in two, letting us kill most of them. Instead, I let us get baited and got myself tackled, leaving the fleet to run away. We didn't lose much to them, but it burns me a bit, because we actually could have gotten a good fight from them. Gingger took over at this point and did a great job in moving the remains home towards berta. On the way home, i logged on my scout alt in Doril and saw a gatecamp get blackopsdroped by a couple of BO BS with recon and SB assistance. Sadly, we were a bit to far out, and most of them cloaked and warped off before we could catch them. They had two arazus that were trapped in their own bubbles, but they managed to damp/ECM drone our skirmishers and warp out before we could catch them. We tried decloaking their BO BS, but unsuccessfully. Gingger moved the fleet back to Berta to reform, and at this point, RL time was catching up to me so i had to log. Delicious Pain took over as FC, but from what i can tell from the killboard, there weren't too many targets to find. As i said before the fleet, i was going to get us all killed horribly, but i failed at that, with about half the fleet returning alive. My bad, won't happen again. So all in all, a couple of tactical fuckups and a slightly too gung ho FC got a couple of kills, but lost too much to some mistakes. I'll try to run another basic roam in not too long, and amend myself then. Hope everyone had fun and learned some stuff. I know i did. Thanks to all the Agony guys taking time off to come help out.

[Stephan Fisher]

Most importent thing though is that we had a lot of fun. And you did warn us that you were looking too get us killed!

[Torkar]

Thanks for taking us out Glepp. Even if it was quiet, you managed to get us into a fight or two, and if you had said that bubbeling us into the jump bridge was intentional as a learning experience we would have believed you. This was probably more valuable for us students then doing it 'the right way'. (I wonder how many of us would have even noticed there had not been a bubble had you not ordered to put it up, and why.) It was nice to see a jumpbridge for the first time, and being chased by a gang with a bunch of t3's on the way back made me feel all 'important'. Thanks to all the Agony guys for making the time for us. For what it's worth; I'm sorry you lost ships at our expense. If anything it showed us that even in a fleet you are still pretty fragile. And I learned a lot from listening to you guys on TS. I had a great time this weekend. Thanks again.

[glepp]

For what it's worth; I'm sorry you lost ships at our expense.

Don't worry about them. You basic fee goes to ship replacements. We don't mind losing some T2 frigs to show you a good time

[Trendas]

For what it's worth; I'm sorry you lost ships at our expense.

Don't worry about them. You basic fee goes to ship replacements. We don't mind losing some T2 frigs to show you a good time

That's cool, I had a great time, we moved around pretty fast, which I think made people more at ease with lowsec. When my ship got destroyed at the gate I decided to stay with the fleet, worst I get podded and a free trip back to Berta, best I get to see a fight or two...was nice to see the Hurricane pop I learned a while ago, if you are not willing to loose ships you shouldn't be flying, and the more risk you take the greater the rewards. Even being chased was a lot of fun, I ended up jumping gates with AAA for a bit. Thanks for taking us through nullsec, and telling in us afterwards what happened in TS, and then putting it here, it really helps.

Thanks Agony

with that said I have 2 questions I forgot to ask

1. In fleet you were assigning scouts +1, +2, -1 Were these referring to what gates they were to scout +1, +2 being ahead of our route, and -1 being behind?

2. The 30 second timer for aggression, that is if you fire at someone right? So, if they fire on you and you don't fire back, can you go through a gate, and they can't?

[Sarek Minyatar]

1. In fleet you were assigning scouts +1, +2, -1 Were these referring to what gates they were to scout +1, +2 being ahead of our route, and -1 being behind?

2. The 30 second timer for aggression, that is if you fire at someone right? So, if they fire on you and you don't fire back, can you go through a gate, and they can't?

You're correct about the scouts. The aggression timer is actually not 30s but 60s, and yes, you're correct again, they can't follow you. However be cautious, oftentimes when there is a single person aggressing you on a gate (usually pointing you as well) and you go through, he will have friends waiting on the other side. Also, be mindful of your drones when you're trying to de-aggress on a gate or station - if you forget about your drones and they continue to engage the enemy you won't be able to jump/dock.

[Trendas]

1. In fleet you were assigning scouts +1, +2, -1 Were these referring to what gates they were to scout +1, +2 being ahead of our route, and -1 being behind?

2. The 30 second timer for aggression, that is if you fire at someone right? So, if they fire on you and you don't fire back, can you go through a gate, and they can't?

You're correct about the scouts. The aggression timer is actually not 30s but 60s, and yes, you're correct again, they can't follow you. However be cautious, oftentimes when there is a single person aggressing you on a gate (usually pointing you as well) and you go through, he will have friends waiting on the other side. Also, be mindful of your drones when you're trying to de-aggress on a gate or station - if you forget about your drones and they continue to engage the enemy you won't be able to jump/dock.

Thanks for the response, that makes sense, baiting pilots seems like the bread and butter of Eve in hi and lowsec

[Steerpike]

In the first fleet we had trouble finding targets, but it was good to get familiar with fleet movement and listen to recon reports etc. When we had the bomb attack on the gate I took the bomb damage 'like a man' without warping out (as ordered), but it was maybe a bit much for my puny Griffin, which lost most of its armour. When we got to the POS I jammed a target successfully, but then my ship popped as I was trying to follow the 'leave bubble and warp away' order (maybe when I turned away from the POS my angular velocity relative to the guns fell too much?). I stayed with the fleet in my pod seeing as there was nothing to lose and I might see some fun... also getting to act as an accidental -1, and learn a bit about how bubbles pull you out of warp - glepp you were most helpful from your [tac bookmark?] off gate location.

Fleet 2 we seemed to have even more difficulty finding targets... right up until what happened at the end (see image) - yes, I really should have had my AB on...)

Thanks AU, and all involved.

[glepp]

The allign out of the bubble on the pos was very badly done by me. I selected planet V, which was almost directly away from the guns, meaning almost no transversal... Complete brainfart, and cost us a few ships. Sorry bout that one...

[Delicious Pain]

I took over FC after Glepp had to leave. Got the Fleet re shiped and formed up and we moved out into Curse again. Targets where non-existent. Having got as far as VOL-MI, a class member suggested a Free for all and after a quick Poll, I turned the fleet around and headed back to Berta for cheap T1 frigs. On the way back -1 reported a Mach on the HLW-HP gate with a Onyx. Told the fleet to go back at best speed and Kill the Mach, and to hell with the consequences. No sooner had we landed and pointed the MacH, up went the bubble, no surprises there. But then his friends turned up (check the imageshack pic from Steerpike)at this point it turned into a blood bath and having completed Glepp's mission statement of 'I am going to get us all killed horribly' I called a Scatter and best speed back to Berta. On the Mad dash back to Berta with the hostile fleet hot on our tales. The Fleet was great, good comms back markers giving Recon reports to each other (Great Job Guys) We had a quick skirmish with a Rapier at a Gate but he got away, to few of left at this point. Once back in Berta a lot of the fleet dropped, it was getting late by this time, midnight I think. Just 10 of us headed back to Hemin for the Free for all. Where I was perma jammed by a damn Griffin. Thanks to all DP

[Ryohko]

Sorry I missed it. Had family drop by unexpectedly and couldn't shoo them out the door. (I tried). Taught my 13yr niece how to do courier missions (which she enjoyed). I think I may have found a way to make isk when she is out for summer (evil grin).

[Varrent]

Sounds like this was fun. Sad I had to miss it due to real life -- I've really been wanting to try out my Super Tackle™ Keres and sadly with me living in low security now, its hard to tackle with one of those with gate guns staring at me all the time. Also, some constructive cirtism I have from reading the AAR, wouldn't the -1 have had intel on the T3 gang that engaged you? And why did the interceptors trying to tackle the Arazus not get in close and orbit 500. As far as I know its near impossible to damp under 1,000m even with a full rack of dampeners. If they hadn't stayed at optimal tackle range of about 20-30km like it sounds like they did you might've been able to catch those Recon kills. Granted, doing this might have backfired, as most Arazus I know have a scram and a point fitted and would've shut off your MWD and let his drones get to work on you. Can't really give a fair assesment without being there, but thats what I gathered from simply reading the AAR. And finnaly, props to glepp for finnally leading the chaos that is a basic roam. Cheers to my old mentor.

[Khessa]

Thank you very much for the roam. I had a lot of fun and learned quite a bit. The bubbles were pretty interesting and I had never seen one until the roam. Is there a relatively easy way to know your position within the bubble so you can burn out of it as quickly as possible? What is a drag bubble? I heard you guys mention that a couple of times in TS. All I can picture is a ship towing/dragging a bubble with it as it flies around. Is that how it works? How on earth did you guys lock and kill some of those ships so quickly? As soon as I started to lock on a ship, it would *poof* and a pod would appear. The pod would disappear before I could lock on it as well. Am I really getting that old? Or do I need better skills/ships? I had a great time and I really appreciate all the time and effort you guys put into it. Thank you very much.

[Gavin]

What is a drag bubble? I heard you guys mention that a couple of times in TS. All I can picture is a ship towing/dragging a bubble with it as it flies around. Is that how it works?

How on earth did you guys lock and kill some of those ships so quickly? As soon as I started to lock on a ship, it would *poof* and a pod would appear. The pod would disappear before I could lock on it as well. Am I really getting that old? Or do I need better skills/ships?

To the first, they cover bubble mechanics in detail during the wolfpacks course. However, to boil it down, if your warp path intersects the bubble, you get pulled out of warp at the bubble. A stop or catch bubble is placed before the target, to catch you before you arrive. One placed behind the target is called a drag bubble because it will drag you well past where you intended to be.

As to the second, skills help (there's a skill that makes you lock faster), ships help (the higher the scan resolution of your ship, the faster you'll lock), and some people may be fitting sensor boosters to speed things up even more.

[glepp]

And why did the interceptors trying to tackle the Arazus not get in close and orbit 500. As far as I know its near impossible to damp under 1,000m even with a full rack of dampeners. If they hadn't stayed at optimal tackle range of about 20-30km like it sounds like they did you might've been able to catch those Recon kills.

He did. I was watching from my covops 20km off, and he was close in. Problem was that both Arazus had ECM drones. And when you're damped to hell, it takes a while to lock them back up...

[keacte]

And why did the interceptors trying to tackle the Arazus not get in close and orbit 500. As far as I know its near impossible to damp under 1,000m even with a full rack of dampeners. If they hadn't stayed at optimal tackle range of about 20-30km like it sounds like they did you might've been able to catch those Recon kills.

He did. I was watching from my covops 20km off, and he was close in. Problem was that both Arazus had ECM drones. And when you're damped to hell, it takes a while to lock them back up...

Yeah - i was in pretty close within scram range as had scram on x1 zu and point on x1 zu - they popped ECM drones and i couldnt regain lock/point/scram - they powered out of the bubble, and warped off just as our fleet had hopped into system and was decloaking and powering out to the bubbles.

Very frustrating - i love ninja'ing recons!

[Crazy Kalibanov]

Fleet 2 we seemed to have even more difficulty finding targets... right up until what happened at the end (see image) - yes, I really should have had my AB on...)

Steerpike - I just noticed your overview only has one tab. Just a suggestion, but having multiple tabs so you can switch between different overview settings can be really, really useful.

[Druur]

The bubbles were pretty interesting and I had never seen one until the roam. Is there a relatively easy way to know your position within the bubble so you can burn out of it as quickly as possible?

I use the Tactical Display overlay for this: turn it on, select the bubble, and you have a pretty good picture of the spatial relation. This is also useful when you jump through a wormhole.

[Tork Norand]

The bubbles were pretty interesting and I had never seen one until the roam. Is there a relatively easy way to know your position within the bubble so you can burn out of it as quickly as possible?

I use the Tactical Display overlay for this: turn it on, select the bubble, and you have a pretty good picture of the spatial relation. This is also useful when you jump through a wormhole.

Another way is to setup your "Keep at range..." to be something high....I generally use 190k. Then you can click on the bubble, hit "keep at range..." and you'll be driven directly away from it...thus the shortest distance out of the bubble.

[Sebastian_GZ]

Gleep you and the other instructors did a great job. You warned us from the begining that we would get killed and a few of us did. The loss of a few frigates for a zealot seems fair to me espcically given what we learned. I look forward to doing this with you again. Thanks