19 replies to this topic

[Corywyn]

Please let me know, what was good, what was bad - always looking to improve

[Muris]

It was an interesting class. You could say that there was quite some repetition of the reading materials covered in the class today, however repetition is key towards a better understanding and you want everyone in the fleet to understand these basics well, it is a BASIC course after all... The interactive parts in between the waterfall of information were nice, to test whether you really understood the material. For example, supplying the recon intel seems easy at first sight, you saw that it is actually quite hard to provide complete, concise and quick intel. I was surprised how well the fleet movements went, expected alot more chaos in a basic course to be honest! Overall, the explanations were very clear. Two slight points that i noticed in your long story. The explanation about grid you gave was a bit fuzzy. From other sources i've learned about the concept of grid, but i can imagine that for someone without prior knowledge it would have been hard to follow. The other point is about the directional scanner. You mentioned something about a green cone when using the directional scanner, however i could not see one, and someone else told this in fleet chat too. You did not explain how you can get this cone visible. Anyhow, well done Corywyn and looking forward to the roam tomorrow!

[Tork Norand]

It was a good class for the beginner. After reading the material and applying what I already knew about PvP, almost all of it was confirmation of things I thought I knew. Not bad for me, it's always a good idea to have your ideas of things confirmed. The "green cone" was something I also would have liked to know more about. I've used dscan extensively in a WH, but never heard or saw anything like that along the way. I did eventually find it on the F11 panel, but I was/am hoping it was located elsewhere...I never use that panel. The level of interaction with the students was good...and I'm not sure if more opportunities can be mixed into the course for that type of thing, but if so it would probably be a good idea. I'm looking forward to the roam tomorrow. "knowing" the material only goes so far without the practical application of it, and that's what I'm missing the most...especially when it comes to having someone FCing with more than just a "spur of the moment need" to be in that role. Thanks again for a job well done!

[Bergon Darek]

I thought class went well as always. Thanks very much, Corywyn!

Grid: I linked this in fleet chat when the question came up, but I'm sure not everyone saw it, so here's the GoonSwarm Grid Fu manual. You can do some evil things if you understand grid and your opponents don't.

Edit:
The roam: The roam was a little different than past roams I've been on with Agony. Usually you get some kills, lose some ships, and it's all kinda hectic/chaotic but fun. This time around it seemed like there were very few targets for us. Potential targets docked up (as others have observed) or got out of the way and at the end, we got trapped pretty effectively (there were lots of bubbles). Personally, I'd love to see an Agony AAR on this roam, because I have a feeling that more was going on at the end than I heard/saw/understood at the time, and I'd like to try to figure that out a bit.

Even with the fleet dying in a fire at the end, I thought it was fun. As with each previous Agony roam, I learned more, performed better, and gained additional confidence. And as someone commented in fleet chat after those who survived got back to Berta: "Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the fly."

*splat*

P.S.: Thanks to this roam, I'm going to have to make sure I permanently have a ship in my hangar named "Sir Robin".

Edited by Bergon Darek, 23 May 2011 - 03:57 AM.

[Torkar]

I thought the class went well. The topics covered were pretty much a repetition of the course materials, but repetition is good. Especially the basics. I liked how the 2nd part of the class was done in space where we could see and apply what was tought rather then having to try to picture it in our minds. It also made it more engaging which means that the teacher is less likely to become a voice in the background while you start dreaming or doing other things. The only thing I would suggest is pasting links to the wikipages of the topics you are covering in fleet chat so people who are having difficulty understanding the topic, or following what is being said can read about it. (If they aren't following you on the wiki page already.) Thanks again for the class, Corywyn. See you at the roam tonight.

[Esbear]

You mentioned something about a green cone when using the directional scanner, however i could not see one, and someone else told this in fleet chat too. You did not explain how you can get this cone visible.

Press F11 (default key) to bring up the maps on the bottom of that you'll see the system map with the green cone mentioned.

[Vam'pyr]

Great class for a new player to Eve Online like myself. Between the reading material and your clarification, I definitely learned quite a bit about surviving in PvP. I cannot wait to take the next class!

[Shilien Deis]

Theory part was good, mostly confirming the written material with the added bonus of practicing a few things. Roam was a lot more organized then I thought it would be and it felt like a good way to familiarize pilots new to PvP with actual 0.0 fleet ops. However I am a bit disappointed on the lack of results from the roam. Thanks to all the Agony and Alumni pilots who took risks trying to find us some kills.

[Trendas]

First I would like to say thanks to all Agony and Alumni pilots who helped us all out. I think the reading material was excellent, as well as Azual's blog. The in space portion was good too, nothing like actually getting practice. The roam was a little disappointing, as a lot of ships were docking when we came along, but its the nature of Eve, it was good experience, and not every time will be the same.

[Leeonwung]

I only caught the last 2 and a half hours of the talk Corywyn but what i heard and what we went through were fascinating and interesting all the same. Firstly in joining Agony Unleashed and reading the reading material for the basic course i was very impressed with the breakdown of the game mechanics and the application of them made to Eve PvP. Going through some of this stuff with my mentor ToranBlades i am getting upto speed very quickly as previously i was only a PvE player. For a basic class and with the time available i couldnt think of a better structure or lecture topics. When i printed the basic class required reading material there were 60 odd pages to read, so to have you in a lecture reinforce all the theory was a good way to learn most of it. Well worth the isk. Cant wait for the advanced class. Cheers

[Saya Himekaidou]

I pretty much only have good stuff to say about the class and roam itself -- it was quite enjoyable, and was a good taste of EVE PVP, which I hadn't gotten much into before (I certainly am now thinking more about it now!). The only minor nitpick is that it seems that a bit of the wiki is slightly out of date --- there's still most of the section on Learning skills, for instance; but this doesn't really detract from any of the other information in there, so it's all good. The roam afterwards was great; hope I can join up on another one someday!

[Steerpike]

I thought you explained things very well Corywyn. If you were looking for things to improve on then maybe Grid mechanics (e.g. the on grid/off grid bookmark examples not quite working out, maybe because we stretched the grid). Also maybe an explanation of offensive and defensive gate camp set ups.

[Corywyn]

The only thing I would suggest is pasting links to the wikipages of the topics you are covering in fleet chat so people who are having difficulty understanding the topic, or following what is being said can read about it. (If they aren't following you on the wiki page already.)

We could do that, however there is a potential issue there: If people start reading the wiki while we do the lecture, they might fall behind and miss some information that is talked about while they are reading. So it's usually better to type out specific questions into fleet chat (where someone will answer them) or wait until the next break and ask on TS.

The only minor nitpick is that it seems that a bit of the wiki is slightly out of date --- there's still most of the section on Learning skills, for instance; but this doesn't really detract from any of the other information in there, so it's all good.

I'll try to take a look at that.

I thought you explained things very well Corywyn. If you were looking for things to improve on then maybe Grid mechanics (e.g. the on grid/off grid bookmark examples not quite working out, maybe because we stretched the grid). Also maybe an explanation of offensive and defensive gate camp set ups.

1) Grid mechanics - Yeah, we could elaborate on that, I might talk it over with the other instructors, whether it's possible (mainly from a time perspective) to put it into the curriculum, or at least put up some more detailed information in the wiki so those who are interested can take a closer look
2) Gatecamps: Are a topic of wolfpacks, so if you're interested in that topic, wait for the next WP class and enjoy it (WP also includes interesting things like bubbles - which are obviously an important part of 0.0 gatecamps)

[Khessa]

I enjoyed the class and I think it went very well. I particularly liked how you didn't miss a beat when the server went down unexpectedly. As with some of the others, I also was a little foggy when you talked about grid mechanics and tactical bookmarks. However, it made a lot more sense after experiencing them during the roam. The lecture and practice were perfect complements to the reading material. As a whole, I am very happy that I was able to attend and I look forward to future classes. Thank you very much for your time and effort.

[Xel Set]

I thought Corywyn's class went very well for what it covered. Corywyn's delivery was actually quite easy to listen to and pleasantly modulated, while the instructor seemed informed and comfortable working with a class. As many have said here, the reading was well reviewed and given more focus in places by the instructor. I agree with pretty much all the student comments I have read so far, in general and will not repeat them here. Instead, I will focus on what I feel the comments have not yet addressed. Tackling. Perhaps asking students to try their hand at tackling is a bit much in a basics course (Maybe we get a chance to do that on subsequent roams as an alum? I couldn't tell from what the wiki said with regards to alums offering assistance.), but I think that's all the more reason we should have given it a lot of attention in the classroom. Tackling is an art and its fundamental to what we were doing at all, so what's the theory behind it? Even if we wouldn't have been putting it to immediate practice, we could have been thinking about it as it was carried out for us. Are we just trying to land on top of our opponents or are we trying to bait them into attacking us. If so, how? Once they are pointed or scrammed by a tackler, what does he do to maximize his longevity until the fleet body can relieve him? Etc. I really expected this to be part of the class and was surprised when it never showed up throughout the course. Also, when non-tackling scouts are getting an eyeball on things, what kinds of things are they doing or avoiding? Fleet composition and specific mods. While I get that we wanted a certain straightforward ratio of particular modules, there was zero discussion about their pairing with each other in our specific fleet composition (with what we had on hand) and their pairing with the frigate types we had in fleet, and I think that was a huge miss. We would have all benefited tremendously to hear the thoughts behind those choices. People brought stuff. The fc was content to string it together with only minor changes, and, in so doing, our roles were set. Why and what were they? What was he going for and how was he achieving it with what we had on hand? What more is there to say on that subject? I think it's self-evident. This could have been covered in class when we brought our mods and used the fleet comp tool, rather than disrupt the roam the next day. Again, I was very surprised that it wasn't covered. The FC's choices. The AAR is tremendously helpful in that respect and an absolutely necessary component to the class. I think Glepp was being far too hard on himself in it, but that's what good fc's do, I guess: give a shit about everybody in their fleet and every detail of everyone's performance, especially their own. That's all I can think of at the moment. Thanks a lot; I would DEFINITELY recommend this course to anyone looking to get a grasp on the very basic fundamentals if you are completely clueless on pvp. Otherwise, it's makes good fundamentals review, as it was for me. I'm very much looking forward to the next class.

[Corywyn]

Tackling.

Perhaps asking students to try their hand at tackling is a bit much in a basics course (Maybe we get a chance to do that on subsequent roams as an alum? I couldn't tell from what the wiki said with regards to alums offering assistance.), but I think that's all the more reason we should have given it a lot of attention in the classroom. Tackling is an art and its fundamental to what we were doing at all, so what's the theory behind it? Even if we wouldn't have been putting it to immediate practice, we could have been thinking about it as it was carried out for us. Are we just trying to land on top of our opponents or are we trying to bait them into attacking us. If so, how? Once they are pointed or scrammed by a tackler, what does he do to maximize his longevity until the fleet body can relieve him? Etc. I really expected this to be part of the class and was surprised when it never showed up throughout the course. Also, when non-tackling scouts are getting an eyeball on things, what kinds of things are they doing or avoiding?

Glepp has an Interceptor class: Link to first Skirmish Class That probably covers everything you want to know about that topic.

[Xel Set]

Tackling.

Perhaps asking students to try their hand at tackling is a bit much in a basics course (Maybe we get a chance to do that on subsequent roams as an alum? I couldn't tell from what the wiki said with regards to alums offering assistance.), but I think that's all the more reason we should have given it a lot of attention in the classroom. Tackling is an art and its fundamental to what we were doing at all, so what's the theory behind it? Even if we wouldn't have been putting it to immediate practice, we could have been thinking about it as it was carried out for us. Are we just trying to land on top of our opponents or are we trying to bait them into attacking us. If so, how? Once they are pointed or scrammed by a tackler, what does he do to maximize his longevity until the fleet body can relieve him? Etc. I really expected this to be part of the class and was surprised when it never showed up throughout the course. Also, when non-tackling scouts are getting an eyeball on things, what kinds of things are they doing or avoiding?

Glepp has an Interceptor class: Link to first Skirmish Class That probably covers everything you want to know about that topic.

Good to know. It sounds perfect. Thanks!

[Konrad Kane]

Hi, As someone with only a month in on Eve I found the course very interesting, there is a lot of a content and the materials published is very comprehensive. I think I'll need to sit in again to review it and take part in a few roams. Excellent course.

[Itkovian Beddict]

Hi, Sorry for the late feedback! I thought the class was really well taught, with just the right amount of theory and practical. Looking forward to more advanced classes now! Would recommend.

[Sebastian_GZ]

I really enjoyed the class and I have seen the improvement in my skills on the few corp roams I have gone on subsequently. the course was well organized and I was impressed with how relaxed the instructors were during the class and the roam. I wished I done this 3 years ago.