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Poseidon is dead


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#51 Azual

Azual

Posted 14 April 2010 - 06:11 PM

Sov 0.0 space will be boned, NPC 0.0 and lowsec have missions available for off axis.

I think the time has come to let people warp to probes so they can make safes anywhere in system...


You can still warp to anomalies, complexes and wormholes in sov space. Not as easy as missions, but it's an option.
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#52 Oli Geist

Oli Geist

Posted 14 April 2010 - 06:42 PM

I think that the scannable stuff in a system always appears within a certain distance of a celestial? Certainly anomalies will always be within 4AU of a planet, because they're supposed to be scannable with the 30s built-in scanner, which has a range of 4AU (? IIRC)

And while a fraction of an AU is a huge number of km and many days' subwarp travel, how many large alliances do you think wouldn't set up a cluster of BMs in each of their systems around the furthest-celestial-plus-ten AU mark and then dedicate an alt to burning outwards DT to DT until they find the warp boundary? If the result is the perfect safespot, where even if you get probed you're completely invulnerable (lol, can't warp to me!), I can't see a few weeks of work causing anyone to hesitate. They can then skirt the edge to create more safes with a few hours of travel between them.

#53 Varrent

Varrent

Posted 14 April 2010 - 06:53 PM

I think that the scannable stuff in a system always appears within a certain distance of a celestial? Certainly anomalies will always be within 4AU of a planet, because they're supposed to be scannable with the 30s built-in scanner, which has a range of 4AU (? IIRC)...


Anomalies afaik do follow that rule, however I have seen cases where signatures are not within 4AU of anything. Floating off the horizontal plane, hoever I do believe they followed this new 10 AU rule, I don't recall seeing anything past 10 AU from anything, but definately more than 4.

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#54 Tonto Auri

Tonto Auri

Posted 15 April 2010 - 02:49 AM

You can still warp to anomalies, complexes and wormholes in sov space. Not as easy as missions, but it's an option.


Not sure about wormholes, but anoms and coplexes not spawn more than 3.46 au from celestial.
While mission deadspace could be located as far as 20 au, effectively out of DScan range.

#55 Alistone Malikite

Alistone Malikite

Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:25 AM



...stuff...


Thanks Tea.

...

Back to making "legal" deeps again - I'm not convinced going vertical on the star is wise though. I'm using FW plex gates that spawn to give me unpredictable angles. Low-sec is probably OK for these "legal" deeps due to clutter and traffic but I think it'll be a different matter for a decent covops pilot in quiet systems. Put it this way - I've stocked up on Sisters deep-space probes and PvP will have to take a back seat until I work out how fast I can scan down Othran at a "legal" safe. I don't think it'll take very long, even allowing for the "I know where he is factor"

I need this nonsense like a hole in the head ~:(


Probers tend to start off with probes set in the plane of the solar system for better coverage. Being significantly above/below will likely require multiple "coarse" adjustments before they narrow their scan down onto you... especially if you do not appear in the 14AU range of the onboard scanner...

In a busy system you can try to hide in POS junk, but you'll show up on scanner, so they'll warp to the planet and use directional scanner to find you...

If you can get off the scanner in a system you'll probably be better off than being anywhere near the plane of the solar system.

If you are above/below the plane in an empty system you'll have an extra 20s when the covops narrows the scan radius and you fall off scan then they'll then have to raise/lower their probe location or increase the scan radius again and run another scan. I figure 20-30s extra....but some of that is luck... If they have their probes set with a lot of overlap then they could get a red dot even on their initial scan and you'd never fall off the scan.

I hope they remember to allow scan probes to warp beyond the new boundary...

I'm a fairly inexperienced prober, but if you want to run some tests I'd be happy to help... covops ready to go in shintaht, H6-, & ESA.
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#56 Othran

Othran

Posted 15 April 2010 - 06:02 AM

I'm not sure if some of you are misunderstanding what I meant about plex gates so just in case : I meant I warp close to a FW plex gate that spawns off the ecliptic. Then I pick a celestial to warp to and use Poseidon to make an "illegal" deep safe. Do that a couple of times more at different angles and you got a nice triangle of "illegal" safes. Get a slower warping ship and use celestials to get your safe as near to the edge of the boundary as possible - 0.1AU is quite do-able. If you already have "illegal" deep safes off the ecliptic then its a quick job. If not its just tedious. You don't actually need plex/mission/whatever to do this. Simply warp to the star in a fast inty and burn away off the ecliptic. Once you've done a few thousand km, turn around and use the Poseidon method to get your first S-Point (which will only be a few AU away, but aligned in the direction you want). Then back to the star, warp to S-Point and use Poseidon again to create a second S-Point. Its monumentally boring but its easy to do. Edit - just tested this in Amamake (which is tiny) and its do-able, but a lot worse than I thought. Basically you need to make a tac at least 15,000km off the star (fast inty/Dramiel time), then you need to switch ships (plated Anathema here). If you don't switch ships then your first S-Point will only be a few tens of thousands of km the other side of the star. tl;dr it can be done but its horrible :sad: Thank you for the offer Alistone but I'm not Agony. When I come through your space I expect to get shot at ;)
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#57 Ged Hawkins

Ged Hawkins

Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:09 AM

Aren't logoff / logon overshoots going to be 'fixed' as well, even within the Wall boundaries?

Then I pick a celestial to warp to and use Poseidon to make an "illegal" deep safe.


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#58 Othran

Othran

Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:59 AM

Aren't logoff / logon overshoots going to be 'fixed' as well, even within the Wall boundaries?

Then I pick a celestial to warp to and use Poseidon to make an "illegal" deep safe.



Not within the boundary of the furthest celestial + 10 AU sphere no. Or if they are then I've completely misread this. Or do you mean that the mechanic will be fixed? The mechanic is getting fixed, but BMs made inside the boundary before May 18 will remain.

The reason for making "illegal" deep safes now is so that you can fly a normal warp between safes/celestial objects which only just comes inside the sphere at one point. For that you need some "illegal" deeps (4 is ideal) off the ecliptic.

That's the point you want for your deep safe (well its the point that I want) - the ideal would be to warp along a line which produces an almost perfect tangent with the sphere. The hard part is dropping the bookmark at the right moment.

I can't do it with ships that fly at much over 6AU - inties are impossible. Some of you may have better luck/skill though.

Getting within 0.1AU of the edge of the sphere is pretty easy. In small systems getting within 0.1AU of the edge of the sphere AND maintaining >14AU from celestials doesn't leave many options. I think in these systems people's "legal" deep safes will actually be within directional scanner range of each other. In short, not very safe at all !lol
Today's word is :

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#59 Ged Hawkins

Ged Hawkins

Posted 15 April 2010 - 12:20 PM

Or do you mean that the mechanic will be fixed? The mechanic is getting fixed, but BMs made inside the boundary before May 18 will remain.

...

I can't do it with ships that fly at much over 6AU - inties are impossible. Some of you may have better luck/skill though.


Yeah, the first part is what I wanted to know. If the mechanic is getting fixed, then so be it. I'm not going to rush out at this point to try to make off-celestial plane bookmarks.

Regarding your other comment about difficulty using FAST warp-speed ships to make new logoff/logon bookmarks while the mechanic is still functioning, try using this ship:

[Helios, Deepsafe bookmarker]
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
100mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

1MN MicroWarpdrive I /OFFLINE
Small Capacitor Battery I /OFFLINE
Cap Recharger I /OFFLINE
Fleeting Warp Disruptor I /OFFLINE
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I /OFFLINE

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Combat Scanner Probe I

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I

Rig-boosted warp-speed to maximize your overshoot distance, but huge mass, so that it aligns like a cow and gives you time to logoff / log back in, to get your overshoot. I made a few really deep safes with it, but it is rather painful waiting for the emergency warp / re-warp back to destination, because it aligns so slowly. (Ignore the mids, leave empty if you want.)
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#60 Othran

Othran

Posted 15 April 2010 - 02:42 PM

Thanks for that Ged but its not quite what I meant - I have a 500mm plated Anathema and an alt with appalling nav skills for the Poseidon bookmarks. Overshot one today by 58AU :@

What I meant was you create a couple of "illegal" bookmarks then warp between them normally to create legal bookmarks as close to the boundary edge as possible. Do this a couple of times and you can create nice angles to wherever you like. The problem is grabbing the bookmark at the right time in warp - I can't get within 0.1AU (or even 1AU) with the fast warping ships, so I swap out for something slower.
Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#61 Nareg Maxence

Nareg Maxence

Posted 15 April 2010 - 07:21 PM

Hi, I don't know if I misunderstood some of the posts here, but the overshoot is currently fixed on Sisi. When you log off during warp your ship will complete the warp and then do an emergency warp after arriving to the destination. I currently know of two other methods to make deep safes, one using abandoned fighters. I tested this a couple of weeks ago and it does indeed work, but is more random than the poseidon method. I think this method depends on the same mechanics as the poseidon method, behind the scenes, so it will probably not work either after Tyranis. The last method works by exploiting broken spawn mechanics when you switch system and your spawn point disappears after you activate the jump but before you respawn at your destination. One way this can happen is when you go through a wormhole and it collapses behind you. It doesn't always happen though. Another way to force this to happen is to make a cyno-jump, but wait on activating until the cyno is about to go down. If you time it right, the destination despawns before you respawn and your spawn point can be a random point at your destination. Often you land at a celestial, but sometimes you can appear at a deep safe.
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#62 Baka Lakadaka

Baka Lakadaka

Posted 16 April 2010 - 02:54 AM

Sadly I have to inform you that today's news is no news.
We have made yet another plan and will publish the even newer blog once all parties involved agreed.
Thank you for your patience.


Still waiting for the updated blog I'm afraid.
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#63 AlarDarkwind

AlarDarkwind

Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:13 PM

Updated blog is out. --> Linky <--

Sounds good, fixes several of the problems, can still make fairly deep safes, not destroying stuff, etc etc...
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#64 Othran

Othran

Posted 17 April 2010 - 06:42 AM

Updated blog is out. --> Linky <--

Sounds good, fixes several of the problems, can still make fairly deep safes, not destroying stuff, etc etc...



Oh dear, they are still FAR too trusting :

The move script will locate all items (physical objects including ships, cans and structures - anything you can collide with is an item) and bookmarks that are more than 20AU further from the sun than the furthest celestial. It will then move them towards the sun until they are exactly on the 20AU boundary for that system.

No need to find the boundary now peeps - just anchor a can at a deep safe in each system you are interested in and let CCP show you where it is.
Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#65 TarSky

TarSky

Posted 17 April 2010 - 07:15 AM

lol ... move the bm it's good than destroing them ... but ... this is not makeing that your bm to be on top on others bm ?! :) Pilot 1: I warp to bm 1 ... it's safe .. always it was ... can go afk ... Pilot 2 .... same shit like pilot 1 ... but .. oh what a nice ship .... it''s a cap ship ?! :o ... call all the alliance ... we have a cap ship to fight with ... :)) o/ have fun !
bla bla .. who the !@#% is reading this

#66 Granger

Granger

Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:48 AM

Updated blog is out. --> Linky <--


"The furthest bookmark is 5,900,000,000 AU (95,000 light years) from its sun. This is roughly the same distance as the diameter of the milky way"


Talk about one person ruining it for the rest of us !lol

Also from the stats - there are 345 ships located unpiloted in deep safes. Get those probes out boys!!!
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#67 KTog

KTog

Posted 17 April 2010 - 10:54 PM


Updated blog is out. --> Linky <--


"The furthest bookmark is 5,900,000,000 AU (95,000 light years) from its sun. This is roughly the same distance as the diameter of the milky way"


Talk about one person ruining it for the rest of us !lol

Also from the stats - there are 345 ships located unpiloted in deep safes. Get those probes out boys!!!



umm, WOW. That is a LOT of time dedicated to one deep safe bookmark. Not to mention that's a fair bit of ships just sitting in space gathering dust.
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#68 Othran

Othran

Posted 18 April 2010 - 08:06 AM

umm, WOW. That is a LOT of time dedicated to one deep safe bookmark.


No its not - that bookmark will date from the time that you could bookmark a solar system (right-click on system name and a bookmark option was in the drop-down menu) and end up with a random bookmark. The game used to initialise the bookmark co-ordinates randomly if you did this.

The 95,000ly bookmark would take 20 YEARS to warp to, assuming 10AU/sec.
Today's word is :

MORAL, adj. Conforming to a local and mutable standard of right. Having the quality of general expediency.

#69 Ecatherina W

Ecatherina W

Posted 18 April 2010 - 09:27 AM

345 unpiloted ships isn't that much.
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#70 Carenthor Loon

Carenthor Loon

Posted 18 April 2010 - 03:17 PM

No need to find the boundary now peeps - just anchor a can at a deep safe in each system you are interested in and let CCP show you where it is.

There is no boundary any more, they're just moving all existing deep safes and (so they claim) "fixing" all the methods for making them:

No restrictions will be made on warping, module activation etc.

Pure conjecture on my part, but I would guess that as "new" (new to CCP or genuinely new to the game) methods of creating deep safes are found and fixed, they'll rerun their move script.
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#71 Othran

Othran

Posted 18 April 2010 - 05:20 PM

There is no boundary any more, they're just moving all existing deep safes and (so they claim) "fixing" all the methods for making them:


Ah I didn't think of it that way.

I'm still spending the next week placing my own bookmarks as I'm not depending on the script moving existing deep safes in a direct line towards the star. Better safe than sorry.

Mind numbing tedium but it has to be done :@
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